|Subject:||Re: [socialcredit] fascism|
|Date:||Thursday, April 5, 2007 08:22:58 (-0400)|
|From:||Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|In reply to:||Message 4652 (written by keith wilde)|
(Keith wrote:-) "In adding to the list, I'm
thinking of attitudes toward the sanctity of old
private property, often obtained through invasion,
piracy or other thuggery."
(Joe asks:-) Could you please elaborate a bit on that, Keith? Do you mean
'land', or other types of property?
(Keith continues:-) "....it does
shift monetary policy significantly into the hands of government. And as
noted, that would be a movement toward democracy. I wonder what have been
the musings of social credit writers over the years about the probable
temptations and vulnerability to corruption via the national credit
(Joe replies:- ) That would be like wondering if the people who work for
Statistics Canada now ever 'slew' the 'figures' to give a purposefully
manipulated meaning to various ongoing developments. Do they? I don't
really know, but I suppose it might well be possible. Maybe by omitting
certain data that should be relevant an 'intended' result could be arrived
at. But in a ''National Credit Office" under SC to what end? Where, or
what, would be the 'incentive' to 'corruption'? Do the SC principles,
properly applied, actually shift 'monetary policy' more into the hands of
'government'. Or 'consumers'?
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith wilde" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] fascism
> Re John Rawson's question: Do you mean "distinction"
> rather than "confusion"?
> As a newcomer to the subject matter several years ago
> I was initially puzzled by Bill Ryan's insistence on
> making a distinction between social credit and "money
> reformers". It didn't take too long to understand the
> objection to putting so much decision power over
> resource allocation into the hands of government,
> hence his shorthand epithet of "fascist". The
> question that has remained, for me, is the degree to
> which the social credit solution is different. (Is it
> 90 or 180?) It has often seemed to me that Bill
> regards them as virtually polar opposites, different
> in more than one respect. (In adding to the list, I'm
> thinking of attitudes toward the sanctity of old
> private property, often obtained through invasion,
> piracy or other thuggery.) Instead of direct spending
> on infrastructure, the social credit solution would
> have a government office to calculate the precise
> amount of new claims to goods and services that should
> be distributed to keep the system churning without
> inflation. I haven't been able to spend the time I
> would like to in contemplating just how big a
> bureaucracy that would entail, but it is not too
> difficult to imagine that it would be less expensive
> than a public works department. Nevertheless, it does
> shift monetary policy significantly into the hands of
> government. And as noted, that would be a movement
> toward democracy. I wonder what have been the musings
> of social credit writers over the years about the
> probable temptations and vulnerability to corruption
> via the national credit authority?
> On another point, John's observation about AMI's
> interpretation of deposits and reserves is
> interesting and seems plausible to me. I look forward
> to other comments.
> Keith Wilde
> --- John G Rawson <email@example.com> wrote:
> Where has the confusion betwen Social Credit and OTHER
> monetary reformers come in? All would curb the
> monopoly of credit creation by the banks, all would
> balance the increase of money supply against needs or
> goods to avoid inflation.
> Douglas, basically, would leave the banks creating
> money, and in view of their nature this might be
> unavoidable anyway. That is their function, which it
> appears could be impossible to stop. (But it could be
> managed by specific controls of the actual money
> volume, and Martin has come up with the only sensible
> way of doing this that I have seen.) But D. would
> have a credit authority also issue some new money to
> be paid to the consumer in some form, hence "economic
> democracy". He saw full central control of
> money-issue as giving central government too much
> Others such as the AMI would channel money through
> government (central and local) spending for
> infrastructure. While this may give government great
> power, I still do see control of the nation by elected
> representatives as better than the present control by
> unelected bankers, as effectively so in all or most
> "democracies". Fascism, or more correctly Nazism,
> consisted of puppet rulers acting on behalf of
> industrialists and bankers. This was the group that
> put Hitler into power in Germany. Without pointing any
> finger, there is very litle difference between the
> Nazi regime and some notable examples now.
> The AMI appears to have fallen for the long-propagated
> fallacy that banks lend their deposits, which are not
> their reserves but their liabilities. Banks gain
> assets by creating the money to purchase them. Their
> reserves are needed for interbank transactions, not
> lending, on which the only controls are willing
> borrowers and the risk of any one losing reserves by
> outstripping the others in lending. (I am again
> quoting findings of our Royal Commission, not personal
> theory.) In effect, the days of "fractional reserve"
> banking are dead, and I believe the term lives on
> because it is useful to confuse reformers. Should the
> AMI become powerful, it may be interesting to see the
> banks reverse their "lending of deposits" propaganda
> and admit that they don't, as part of a counter to the
> reformers' arguments!
> In passing, our NZ Party believes that times have so
> changed since the time of Douglas, with government
> assuming so many more functions, that we have adopted
> a blend of the two approaches.
> Regards. John R.
> From: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Reply-To: email@example.com
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: [socialcredit] fascism
> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:28:36 -0700 (PDT)
> >Regarding the term, fascism, it is clearly used as an
> >opprobrium. I use the term to apply not only to those
> >groups historically identified as fascist, who call
> >themselves fascist, but to those groups or
> >who advocate increasing power into the hands of the
> >central or federal executive. This is, in my opinion,
> >contrary to the uniquely American perspective, as
> >expressed in its Constitution and Bill of Rights,
> >which is to admit the necessity of the institution of
> >government, but to constrain it with division of
> >powers and checks and balances, to deter it from
> >becoming a tyranny.
> >As to Stephen Zarlenga, I would not refer to him
> >directly as being a fascist, but would maintain that
> >the groups he associates himself with, and policies
> >that he advocates, are clearly fascistic by this
> >Zarlenga has been closely associated with the
> >Georgists, and on numerous occasions has accepted
> >funding from them. Both Michael Hudson and Geoffrey
> >Gardiner claim that various Georgist organizations
> >have been connected to the Nazis. Hudson claims that
> >one of the major Georgist organizations that he once
> >was associated with accepted money from German Nazi
> >intelligence for spying. And he claims they were
> >closely connected to the eugenicist movement. Hudson
> >was and is a Georgist insider and therefore speaks
> >from some position of authority.
> >As to policies that Zarlenga advocates, I append the
> >latest version of his American Monetary Act, which I
> >received from him two days ago.
> >Whatever else that Act might do, one thing that it
> >most certainly will do is increase the power of the
> >federal executive tremendously.
> >Firstly, it proposes to merge the powers of banking
> >into the Treasury Department, directly in the chain
> >command from the President.
> >It also significantly increases the power of banking
> >under that central control.
> >It purports to advocate one hundred percent banking.
> >But a true one hundred percent requirement would mean
> >that banks could not make loans. What is really being
> >proposed is a modified and centralized fractional
> >reserve system, which through a legal fiction,
> >deposits will be divided into two categories:
> >and saving. One-hundred percent reserves will be
> >required against checking deposits, and something
> >than one-hundred percent will be required against
> >savings deposits.
> >Presently, reserves are injected into circulation by
> >the Federal Reserve Open Market Committee through its
> >so-called "open market" operations.
> >The Act proposes that instead, reserves will be
> >injected through federal government spending.
> >Now, the necessity to tax is presently a significant
> >check on the power of government, inasmuch government
> >may levy a tax, but collecting it is another matter.
> >That check upon the power of the federal government
> >eliminated by The American Monetary Act.
> >The division of power between the federal and state
> >and local governments is weakened by the Act, which
> >proposes a series of grants and "interest free" loans
> >to the state and local governments, which will reduce
> >their individual necessity to tax, and thereby lessen
> >the check of their own people on their governments.
> >And of course increase the power of the federal
> >grantors of the "interest free" loans and grants over
> >the state and local governments.
> >I invite comments.
> >Received from Stephen Zarlenga, April 2, 2007
> >THE AMERICAN MONETARY ACT
> >An Act to restore the Constitutional power to create
> >Money to the Congress of the United States
> > Be it enacted by the Senate and House of
> >Representatives of the United States of America in
> >Congress assembled,
> >SEC 1. SHORT TITLE
> >This Act may be cited as the American Monetary Act
> >SEC 2. FINDINGS
> >The Congress finds that -
> >(1) The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 effectively ceded
> >the sovereign power to create Money delegated to
> >Congress by the Constitution to the private financial
> >(2) This cession of Constitutional power has resulted
> >in a multitude of monetary and financial afflictions,
> >including a growing and unreasonable concentration of
> >wealth, an uncontrollable national debt, excessive
> >taxation of citizens, inflation of the currency,
> >drastic increases in the cost of public
> >investments, excessive un- and under-employment, and
> >erosion of the ability of Congress to exercise its
> >Constitutional responsibilities to provide for the
> >common defense and general welfare.
> >(3) The issue of means of exchange by private
> >financial institutions as interest-bearing debts
> >should cease once and for all.
> >(4) The power of Government to create Money and spend
> >or loan it into circulation as needed is similar but
> >different in nature from the power to create and
> >market instruments of indebtedness; it eliminates the
> >need to pay interest charges to financial
> >and removes their undue influence over public policy.
> >(5) Direct disbursement of United States Money can be
> >readily and easily implemented, including replacement
> >of Federal Reserve Notes and retirement of debt.
> >(6) The Federal Reserve System shall be retained as a
> >central bank of issue, a national fund processing
> >clearinghouse, and a fiscal agent for the Government
> >and should be incorporated within the US Treasury. It
> >should no longer be utilized to introduce liquidity
> >into the currency system through interest-bearing
> >(7) Government policy with regard to monetary supply
> >should be based on the principle of furnishing
> >sufficient liquidity to support the reasoned
> >sustainable expansion of the physical economy,
> >providing for the common defense and general welfare
> >of the United States, and full employment of the
> >nation's working population
> >TITLE I - DISBURSEMENT OF UNITED STATES MONEY
> >SEC. 101 AUTHORIZATION FOR DISBURSEMENT
> >Not later than 90 days after the effective date of
> >this section, all United States Government
> >disbursements shall be denominated in United States
> >Money, the nominal unit being the U.S. Dollar.
> >SEC. 102 LEGAL TENDER
> >United States Money shall enter into general domestic
> >circulation as full legal tender in payment of all
> >debts public and private.
> >SEC. 103 NEGATIVE FUND BALANCES
> >The Secretary of the Treasury shall directly issue
> >United States Money to account for any differences
> >between Government appropriations authorized by
> >Congress under law and available Government receipts.
> >Note: The fact that Treasury will be able to make
> >disbursements based on direct issuance of United
> >States Money for negative fund balances reflects
> >Congress's Constitutional authority to "coin Money",
> >because Congress will then have the ability to adjust
> >the amount of Money so created by regulating both
> >appropriations as well as revenues from taxation and
> >other sources. The focal point of power will be the
> >House of Representatives as the initiator of revenue
> >bills. Restoring to Congress its Constitutional
> >authority will shift the ability to create Money and
> >enter it into circulation from the private banking
> >industry to our elected representatives, as the
> >Constitution mandates.
> >SEC. 104 FORECASTING OF DISBURSEMENT REQUIREMENTS
> >The Secretary shall:
> >(1) forecast disbursement requirements on a daily,
> >monthly, and annual basis;
> >(2) provide such forecasts to Congress and the
> >(3) integrate forecasts with the Federal budget
> >(4) maintain a sufficient research capability to
> >continuously and effectively assess the impact of
> >disbursement of United States Money on all aspects of
> >the domestic and international economies;
> >(5) report to Congress and the public regularly on
> >economic impact of disbursements of United States
> >Money and the status of the monetary supply.
> >SEC. 105 MONETARY CONTROL
> >(1) The Secretary shall pursue the policy that the
> >supply of money in circulation should not become
> >inflationary nor deflationary in and of itself.
> >(2) Monetary supply targets shall be established by a
> >Monetary Control Board consisting of nine public
> >members appointed for staggered six-year terms by the
> >President with the advice and consent of the Senate
> >and reporting for administrative purposes to the
> >(3) Responsibility to regulate the monetary supply in
> >reasonable accordance with targets established by the
> >Monetary Control Board shall rest with the Secretary
> >of the Treasury.
> >(4) The Secretary shall report to Congress any
> >discrepancies between targets and supply in excess of
> >one percent at the end of each quarter.
> >SEC. 106 DISBURSEMENT IN LIEU OF BORROWING
> >(1) Disbursement of United States Money under this
> >shall be made in lieu of borrowing through Treasury
> >(2) Such borrowing shall cease as of the date stated
> >in Section 101 of this title, unless otherwise
> >authorized by Congress;
> >(3) Nothing in this Act shall prevent Congress from
> >exercising its Constitutional authority to borrow on
> >the full faith and credit of the United States.
> >SEC. 107 ACCOUNTING
> >The Secretary shall account for the disbursement of
> >United States Money and of current fund balances
> >through accounting reports maintained and published
> >the Secretary and by departments and agencies of the
> >Government. The General Accountability Office shall
> >conduct an independent audit every second year.
> >TITLE II - RETIREMENT OF INSTRUMENTS OF INDEBTEDNESS
> >SEC. 201 COMMENCEMENT OF RETIREMENT
> >Not later than one year from the effective date of
> >this section, the Secretary shall commence to retire
> >all outstanding instruments of indebtedness of the
> >United States by payment in full of the amount
> >due the bearer in United States Money, as such
> >become due.
> >TITLE III - CONVERSION TO UNITED STATES MONEY
> >SEC. 301 CONVERSION OF FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES
> >(1) Not later than 120 days from the effective date
> >this section, the Secretary shall establish the
> >capability of converting outstanding Federal Reserve
> >Notes to United States Money of equal face value upon
> >presentation to any domestic national or state
> >financial institution by the bearer;
> >(2) Not later than 150 days from the effective date
> >this section, the Secretary shall provide a
> >quantity of United States Money to the domestic
> >banking system to allow for conversion of all book
> >entries and cash-on-hand;
> >(3) Not later than 180 days from the effective date
> >this section, all financial institutions within the
> >United States shall disburse funds only in United
> >States Money;
> >(4) Not later than 180 days from the effective date
> >this section, all fund accounts within United States
> >financial institutions shall be denominated only in
> >United States Money;
> >(5) The Secretary shall promptly dispose of all
> >Federal Reserve Notes upon receipt.
> >SEC. 302 RESERVE REQUIREMENTS AND INTEREST CEILINGS
> >(1) Not later than 180 days from the effective date
> >this section, financial institutions authorized to
> >operate within the United States under any Federal or
> >state charter may only lend money as a deposit
> >institution without fractional reserve banking;
> >(2) In order to initially bring reserves to a level
> >equivalent to outstanding loans, financial
> >institutions may at inception of this act, borrow
> >United States Money from the Treasury;
> >(3) In ending fractional reserve banking, the
> >Secretary is authorized to initially lend United
> >States Money at interest to financial institutions
> >reserve purposes subject to regulations established
> >the Secretary.
> >(4) Not later than 120 days from the effective date
> >this section, the Secretary shall publish regulations
> >a) criteria to determine interest charges for
> >utilization by financial institutions of public
> >procedures for determining and declaring insolvency
> >reserve borrowing portfolios, and policies and
> >procedures for disposition of forfeited financial
> >institution assets.
> >b) Checking type accounts; that implement a system of
> >what is generally known as one-hundred percent
> >banking on all checking type accounts. Effectively,
> >checking accounts become a warehousing and
> >transferring service for which fees are charged. This
> >regulation will take effect over a one year period.
> >c) Savings Type accounts and Time Deposits; to
> >establish reserve and other requirements for the
> >continued lending of money at interest by banks.
> >d) other accounts; establishing appropriate
> >regulations, to encourage private lending activity,
> >but prohibit private money creation in the form of
> >e) the computer accounting segregation of deposits of
> >money, from the deposits of loans - i.e. from credit
> >deposited in the system, with the intent to allow
> >money, but not credit, to be loaned out.
> >Note: It is anticipated that the money spent into
> >circulation by the U.S. Government under Title V of
> >this Act, will ultimately be deposited into the
> >where that money, not fractional reserves, will
> >provide the engine for continued loans and necessary
> >expansion. It is also anticipated that enough public
> >spirited banking professionals will join with
> >officials in assuring that these regulations are
> >properly formulated recognizing realities within the
> >banking industry, to assure a smooth transition.
> >(5) The total amount of interest charged by a
> >financial institution to any natural person borrower
> >through amortization, including all fees and service
> >charges, shall not exceed the original principal of
> >any loan, except mortgages.
> >(6) United States debt instruments held by banks will
> >be credited to their reserve positions in calculating
> >the amounts necessary to borrow to upgrade their
> >(7) The maximum interest rate of 8% per year will
> >apply throughout the U.S. inclusive of all fees.
> >(8) Interest payments by the U.S. to foreign central
> >banks or their intermediaries will be reduced
> >pro-rated over 15 years to1 %.
> >TITLE IV - RECONSTITUTION OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE AS A
> >BUREAU WITHIN THE UNITED STATES TREASURY DEPARTMENT
> >SEC. 401 RECONSTITUTION OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE
> >(1) No later than 90 days from the effective date of
> >this section, the Secretary shall purchase on behalf
> >of the United States all net assets in the Federal
> >Reserve System at current market value denominated in
> >United States Money.
> >(2) The Federal Reserve in its role as a central bank
> >of issue, a national fund processing clearinghouse,
> >and a fiscal agent for the Government shall be
> >reconstituted as a bureau within the United States
> >Department of the Treasury.
> >(3) The Federal Reserve shall be administered by a
> >commissioner and deputy commissioner appointed for
> >six-year terms by the President with the advice and
> >consent of the Senate.
> >(4) The Federal Reserve shall administer on behalf of
> >the Secretary the monetary targets established and
> >authorized by the Monetary Control Board and shall
> >administer lending of United States Money to
> >authorized financial institutions in order to assure
> >one-hundred percent reserve banking, also known as
> >deposit banking, within the United States.
> >TITLE V - INFRASTRUCTURE MODERNIZATION
> >SEC. 501 DIRECT FUNDING OF INFRASTRUCTURE
> >Note: Since the banks will not be creating new money
> >and it is crucial in an expanding economy and
> >population base that new money be added into
> >circulation, this will be done through direct funding
> >of infrastructure, social, education and health
> >programs on a per capita basis assuring an equitable
> >distribution throughout the nation.
> >Not later than 90 days from the effective date of
> >section, the Secretary shall report to Congress on
> >opportunities to utilize direct funding by the
> >Government to modernize, improve, and upgrade the
> >physical economy of the United States in such areas
> >transportation, agriculture, water usage and
> >availability, sewage systems, medical care,
> >and other infrastructure systems, to promote the
> >general welfare. This will be done with substantial
> >intrinsic ecological sustainability and quality of
> >life considerations.
> >This program shall promote throughout the U.S. a
> >harmonious and balanced development of economic
> >activities, sustainable and non-inflationary growth
> >respecting the environment, a high level of
> >and of social protection, the raising of the standard
> >of living and quality of life, and economic and
> >social cohesion.
> >Note: these ecological, sustainability and quality of
> >life considerations are derived from the European
> >Central Bank treaty protocols, which examined the
> >questions extensively.
> >SEC. 502 INTEREST FREE LENDING TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTAL
> >Not later than 180 days from the effective date of
> >this section, the Secretary shall provide
> >recommendations to Congress for a program of
> >interest-free lending of United States Money to state
> >and local governmental entities including school
> >boards and emergency fire services for infrastructure
> >improvements under their control and within their
> >jurisdictions, based on per capita amounts or other
> >criteria to assure equity as determined by the
> >Monetary Control Board.
> >SEC. 503 MONETARY GRANTS TO STATES
> >Each year the Monetary Control Board will instruct
> >U.S. Treasury to disburse per capita grants evenly
> >over a 12 month period to the 50 states equal to 25%
> >of the money created under Title V in the prior year.
> >The states will use these funds in broadly designated
> >areas of public infrastructure, education, health
> >and rehabilitation; and be partially re-directed for
> >use by county, city, village and school board
> >SEC. 504 FARMING PARITY PROGRAM
> >Not later than 120 days from the effective date of
> >this section, the Secretary, in cooperation with the
> >Secretary of Agriculture, shall provide
> >recommendations to Congress for a program of farm
> >parity payments of United States Money to family
> >farmers in order to assure diversity of quality
> >domestic food sources and products and maintain the
> >socially beneficial existence of family farming
> >operations within the United States.
> >SEC. 505 EDUCATION FUNDING PROGRAM
> >Not later than 120 days from the effective date of
> >this section, the Secretary, in cooperation with the
> >Secretary of Education, shall provide recommendations
> >to Congress for a program to help fund an educational
> >system that will put the United States on par with
> >other highly developed nations, and create a learning
> >environment so that every child has an opportunity to
> >reach their full educational potential while feeling
> >safe in their school and community.
> >SEC. 506 INITIAL MONETARY DIVIDEND TO CITIZENS
> >Not later than 90 days from the effective date of
> >section, the Secretary, in cooperation with the
> >Monetary Authority shall provide recommendations to
> >Congress for payment of a Citizens Dividend as a
> >tax-free grant to all U.S. citizens residing in the
> >U.S. in order to provide liquidity to the banking
> >system at the commencement of this act, before
> >governmental infrastructure expenditures have had a
> >chance to work into circulation.
> >SEC. 507 UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE
> >[This section will be written following consultation
> >with people in the medical field who are working on
> >this problem.]
> >Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
> >in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
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