| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] In reply to Keith, more on A+B | | Date: | Sunday, April 8, 2007 20:14:46 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4667 (written by KEITH WILDE) |
We have accurate estimates of income. They are called GDP, assessed from tax
returns on orthodox assumptions. It should be possible to make a fairly accurate
estimate of purchasing power by deducting savings from that figure.
With new taxes on production, the various value-added taxes of various
countries, it should be possible to get accurate figures for overall consumption
of consumer goods and services. A national credit Authority should have
reasonable data to work on.
There would remain the unknown factor of production rising to meet increased
sales.
Add a little caution in the form of "be careful as you go" as admirably
expressed by Bill, and surely the problem becomes completely manageable?
Regards. John R.
From: "KEITH WILDE" <keithwilde@sympatico.ca>
Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] In reply to Keith, more on A+B
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 12:06:43
+0000
>OK Bill, you have clarified that it is the term “precise amount” to
>which you object. I suspected that was target of your comment. But
>it
seems to me that your explanation adds precision to the nature of
>required
calculations (and data gathering/estimation) rather than to
>support the
assertion that “there is no need to calculate any
>amount whatsoever”.
>
>You
have in fact affirmed my presumption that “we want to look
>at…the ratio of A +
B, or entrepreneurial spending, to real
>production”.
>
>This seems clearly to
imply some work for a central data
gathering
>and analysis agency. That was the point of my comments to Joe. (I
>remain interested and uncertain over just what that activity entails
>and
what its ramifications and implications might be.)
>
>You add the further
precision that “what we want to is introduce an
>element C through the
dividend/discount such that the ratio A + B
>remains constant to A + C through
time”.
>
>Do you mean the ratio of A+B to A+C, or that A+B is itself a ratio
>rather than a sum? Or is what we want a rate of change in A+B to be
>equal
to the rate of change in A+C? “The ratio will not become
>constant until C is
raised sufficiently. You keep increasing C
>until, if and when, the ratio
becomes constant.”
>
>Keith
>
>
>>From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>>Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
>>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] In reply to Keith, more on A+B
>>Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 10:58:17
-0700 (PDT)
>>
>>Again, Keith, it was this statement to which I
was
>>objecting:
>>
>>"...the social credit solution would have a government
>>office
to calculate the precise amount of new claims
>>to goods and services that should
be distributed to
>>keep the system churning without inflation."
>>-
>>
>>There
is no need to calculate the *precise* amount at
>>all. There is no need to
calculate any amount
>>whatsoever so long as the dividend/discount
is
>>introduced gradually from the inception of the
>>program. The inherent
instability decreases as the
>>"gap" between
"prices" and "purchasing power" is
>>closed.
>>
>>Before, A + B and A will
diverge from each other with
>>labor displacement, so either A + B or A or both
must
>>diverge from real production. It is impossible with
>>the orthodox tools
to make both change proportionately
>>with real production, so we have the
trade-off we
>>observe empirically in the Phillips curve.
>>
>>The monetary
authorities have attempted to strike a
>>balance between moderate inflation and
moderate
>>unemployment, and they have been reasonably successful
>>in doing so.
It also means that the economy is kept
>>in a permanent condition of
under-performance.
>>
>>If the ratio of B is increasing to A, the ratio of A
+
>>B is increasing to A.
>>
>>What
we want to is introduce an element C through the
>>dividend/discount such that
the ratio A + B remains
>>constant to A + C through time. The ratio will
not
>>become constant until C is raised sufficiently. You
>>keep increasing C
until, if and when, the ratio
>>becomes constant.
>>
>>Up to that point A + B is
the dependent variable of C.
>>
>>The statistical variable we want to look at is
the
>>ratio of A + B, or entrepreneurial spending, to real
>>production.
>>
>>If
A + B begins to increase in respect of real
>>production, leading into inflation,
you reduce the
>>rate of increase to C.
>>
>>The limit will be at a significantly
greater level of
>>economic activity than at present.
>>-
>>
>>--- keith
wilde <kwilde@tc-biodiversity.org> wrote:
>>
>>Thanks for this expository
effort, Bill. I have spent
>>quite a lot of time with it, and have also read
your
>>more recent reaction to "Mark".
>>
>>And I think I have understood fairly
well. But I am
>>still puzzled by just what it is that you disagree
>>with. My
point was that there must be some kind of
>>government office to perform the
functions of the
>>Credit Authority. I had no intent to be making a claim
>>to
understanding the nature of the function. So when
>>you observe that "the
statistical variable to watch
>>becomes the relationship of A + B to real
production"
>>I take that as a more accurate statement of the
>>function. The
function remains, however, and I presume
>>that it would
be undertaken by a pre-existing
>>government statistical agency. Do you agree
with
that?
>>
>>
>>Keith
>>
>>
>>
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>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>are
at
>>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>You're subscribed to this
list with the email
>>keithwilde@sympatico.ca
>>For more information, visit
>>http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>at
>http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>You're subscribed to this
list with the email
>johngrawson@hotmail.com
>For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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