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Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Historic accuracy? william_
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
By request of Rich Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
Re: Social Credito Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] william_
fascism william_
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
RE: [socialcredit] John Her
Re:Re: [socialcred John Her
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
In reply to Keith, william_
Re: more on A + B william_
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] william_
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] KEITH WI
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] KEITH WI
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
"Social Credit" in Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] Keith Wi
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Some Forwarded Com Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] William
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Richard
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Economic Democracy
Date:Monday, April 2, 2007  23:37:10 (+1200)
From:William Hugh McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
In reply to:Message 4633 (written by Joe Thomson)

Hi Joe
          I make an observation here. The ability of governments to acquire credit for whatever purposes they wish is boundless. We only have to look at the obscene quantities of money that appear to be automatically available for sovereign governments to wage warfare. Surely this tells us that the same means can be used to alieviate want and suffering directly related to lack of financial availablity to pay for those needs. Douglas was the first to actually point the finger as to where the present system is failing humanity. Keynes and the socialists (and even the Marshall Aid plan to some extent) adopted a "borrow now pay later plan" to fund the industrial expansion after WWII. While this appeared to be very similar to Douglas's scheme, it required governments to go into debt to the private banking sector to achieve the end results. It started to fall apart when the private banking system deliberately started to act in a manner to curb inflation. In reality if a government allows inflation to take place and ensures that wages, salaries and pensions keep pace with inflation the banking system loses out big time in the long run. Inflation allows long-term debts to become a smaller and smaller proportion of personal income. In this way although it appears that the general public are losing out in the short term, because of rising prices, in reality the prudent who have taken out large debt to pay for houses, land and similar permanent assets gain tremendously because they finish up debt free at a faster and faster rate. Our present financial system requires about 7-8% to ensure that long term benefit to the population. Even manufacturers gain because they find that again  their long term debt servicing is an ever reducing proportion of their overheads and this enables them to gain financial independance from the banking system. The pressure to curb inflation comes from the banking sector, and it tries to brainwash the general public into believing that inflation is bad for the general economy. In reality, under our present financial system, this is a gross misrepresentation of the facts. I believe Douglas probably anticipated this happening, but never got around to explaining the advantages of steady controlled inflation on long-term debt servicing. Although in Douglas's day they proportion of debt created finance was considerably less than that in circulation today. These are simply my observations on the present financial system and I would appreciate comments from others about those observations
    Bill McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Economic Democracy

 
 
(Peter wrote:-)  The banks claim of ownership is a fraud according to Douglas, as we have had quoted. 
 
(Joe replies:-)  But how do the Banks exercise this "claim of ownership?  Is it not only exercisable through the borrower's inability to repay?  And shouldn't that depend on whether it's the banks or the borrower that've caused this inability to repay? 
 
For aren't there really two separate things here?  The first is the question of whether or not the borrower, in the case of an individual  business, say, is  capable of providing some good or service that the public actually wants. 
 
And wants at a price sufficient enough, whether it's a regularly computed price, as now, or one discounted as would be all prices through the CPD under SC, for the business to be profitable. 
 
For if his business has  borrowed 'money', it will be from his profits this 'money' will be repaid, will it not?.  If no one wants his product, for whatever reasons ~ maybe  he's got a poor product line,  maybe he's a poor manager, runs a sloppy store, can't get along with his customers,  hires poor employees,  whatever ~ and he's not profitable (through his own actions), who takes the hit when he can't repay?  
 
Now he's in default, and the Bank that lent him the funds claims whatever he's put up as collateral security, if anything.  Because that Bank is on the hook for whatever portion of the funds it's advanced him that have been paid out by the borrower to other parties, and for which the Bank has not yet been repaid by him. 
 
And though they may have created the credit out of nothing, it will not exactly be from 'nothing' that they have to then meet these liabilities. There will be a reduction of the shareholder's equity in that bank proportional to the size of the defaulted unpaid loan balance. 
 
Banks can indeed 'go broke' from too many defaulted loans, and  their shareholder's 'capital' can indeed disappear. (Generally, in Canada, a Bank with too many potentially 'problem' loans would be forced to find more 'capital', probably through a merger with another bank.  
 
The second thing is the action of the entire banking system, in the 'macro-economic sense'.  Where, through their policies, ones designed in the belief that they are 'protecting their interests' , they cause a general 'credit contraction' to occur.  Which affects the amount of 'effective demand' present in the economy in a negative way that causes 'sales' and business 'profit' (from which loans will be repaid) to fall. 
 
In this case the individual business may have a product that is needed, or genuinely desired, be well managed, have good employees, excellent customer relations, etc., yet still fail.  Not through the individual actions of the entrepreneur, but through the actions of the banking system as a whole in causing a credit crunch, and a pinching off of the business's expected profits and ability to keep current on its loan repayments.
 
I don't think Social Credit can do a single thing in regards to the first instance above.  There are always going to be people who enter businesses, often on borrowed money, and find they are just not cut out to be in that business.  Does the Bank violate some sacred principle when it forecloses on whatever it can to try to recover its loss in such instances? 
 
Is it really any different than you putting collision insurance on your car, having an accident that renders it an unrepairable write-off, collecting the insurance pay-out, and then having the insurer try to sell what's left of the wreck to try to offset some of that pay- out?  You have claimed, for the premium fee you paid when you made the insurance contract, the insured amount of your vehicle.  The insurer, on payment and fulfilment of his part of that contract,  has claimed what's left of your car.
 
In the second, 'macro-economic'  instance above , Social Credit can indeed make an enormous difference.  By ensuring that there is always sufficient 'effective demand' present (in the aggregate) to fully liquidate 'debt' (in the aggreagate), the greatest single failure  factor for most businesses, the 'risk' of a credit contraction affecting sales  and profit, has been removed. There will still be 'risk' in regards to individual businesses, but the major one that affects all businesses has been neutralized.
 
And by using credit through the CPD, (and ND), the physical realities of lower cost production through technical effficiencies, can be reflected in a falling price level without a fall off in business profit.  Inflation, and the present necessary allowance for it inherent in the interest rate, is also eliminated.  And what we have is the Banks then being paid primarily for the service they provide, hopefully in a genuine 'competition' with one another. And what's wrong with that?
 
 
 
 

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