| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Historic accuracy? | | Date: | Tuesday, April 3, 2007 13:18:22 (-0400) | | From: | Richard Cook <rickycook21 @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4643 (written by keith wilde) |
In the interest of full disclosure and fairness to all subscribers, I would
like to ask Keith Wilde to post his full review of Stephen Zarlenga's "Lost
Science of Money," along with Zarlenga's public response. Otherwise I don't
think members will gain a full appreciation of the implications of the
comment here that links Zarlenga's name with use of the word "fascism."
cc: Mr.Stephen Zarlenga
>From: keith wilde <kwilde@tc-biodiversity.org>
>Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Historic accuracy?
>Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 09:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I anticipate with interest the exchange that will
>develop between you and Bill over this one.
>
>Keith
>
>
>--- Richard Cook <rickycook21@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In my opinion it is absolutely fruitless and a waste
> > of time to use labels
> > like "fascist" to discuss any aspect of monetary
> > research or proposals. It
> > resembles a smear campaign. Ideas should be
> > discussed impartially and on
> > their merits. Mussolini "made the trains run on
> > time." So I suppose trains
> > and watches are "fascist?"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Keith Wilde" <keithwilde@sympatico.ca>
> > >Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Historic accuracy?
> > >Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 02:18:37 -0400
> > >
> > >Very interesting! The implication for Douglas that
> > Ryan notes is
> > >paralleled by the "creditary" theory developed by
> > Meakin and Gardiner--both
> > >of which I have found to be very persuasive. On
> > the other hand, the point
> > >made by McGunn. is reinforced in the work of
> > Alexander Del Mar. In
> > >particular, I have his 1896 book History of
> > Monetary Systems which is
> > >primarily a history of coinage that emphasizes the
> > consistency over time of
> > >particular coins and their direct link to a
> > recognized political authority.
> > >A notable example is a gold coin (solidus?) that
> > was the standard of value
> > >throughout Europe until the fall of Constantinople.
> > From the introductory
> > >notes to my 1983 re-issue of his book, it is
> > evident that Del Mar was a
> > >justifiably recognized authority on the history of
> > the precious metals and
> > >of coinage. This one is the last of his books on
> > the subject, which number
> > >six in total--plus many articles. So, there was
> > plenty of quite recent
> > >scholarship to the contrary that Innes could have
> > used.
> > >
> > >I just happened to have the Del Mar book on my
> > shelves when starting to
> > >read Zarlenga's Lost Science of Money, having
> > spotted it in the window of a
> > >used book store not many months previously. I read
> > it in conjunction, and
> > >found that Stephen made very extensive use of Del
> > Mar, resting much of his
> > >argument on the work of the latter. Although there
> > seems to have been a
> > >perception of common interest between Zarlenga and
> > Meakin-Gardiner while
> > >the former's work was in progress, publication and
> > review shattered it, for
> > >they found that they were not on the same track at
> > all. Ryan's observation
> > >about Douglas and Innes is reinforcement of the
> > point.
> > >
> > >There is interesting anecdotal linkage here to the
> > element of what Ryan
> > >calls fascism in proposals for monetary reform like
> > those of Zarlenga. The
> > >reissue of the Del Mar book that I have was an
> > intiative of The National
> > >Poetry Foundation, University of Maine at Orono, in
> > The Ezra Pound
> > >Scholarship Series. Pound was imprisoned for many
> > years by the United
> > >States because of his support for ideals of the
> > Mussolini regime in Italy.
> > >He was visited frequently in prison by Eustace
> > Mullins, a youthful admirer
> > >who researched the origins of the Federal Reserve
> > System as a staff member
> > >at the Library of Congress. This was published in
> > 1952, and the copy I have
> > >was re-issued in 1954 as The Federal Reserve
> > Conspiracy. It was put into
> > >my hands by the former leader of the Social Credit
> > Party of Canada, John
> > >Blackmore, but I had never read it until I found
> > that Zarlenga was basing
> > >much of his argument upon it. At the time he
> > published the book, Mullins
> > >was also serving as chief of research for the
> > Unamerican Activities
> > >campaign of Joseph McCarthy. This link led me to
> > review a lot of conspiracy
> > >literature, some of which I had read and discounted
> > long in the past. As I
> > >passed on these bits of info to Stephen, he became
> > upset with me and
> > >accused me of wanting to destroy his position,
> > which was not the case.
> > >
> > >(I have read the subsequent exchanges under this
> > head, those between Martin
> > >and Ryan, and the substantial essay by McGunn. of
> > this morning. This seemed
> > >like the most appropriate place to insert my own
> > comment.)
> > >
> > >Keith
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> > >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > >Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:26 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Historic accuracy?
> > >
> > >
> > > > Then I take it you do not agree with this from
> > Innes'
> > > > 1913 paper
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/new_economics/innes
> > > >
> > > > "...there is overwhelming evidence that there
> > never
> > > > was a monetary unit which depended on the value
> > of
> > > > coin or on a weight of metal; that there never
> > was,
> > > > until quite modern days, any fixed relationship
> > > > between the monetary unit and any metal; that,
> > in
> > > > fact, there never was such a thing as a metallic
> > > > standard of value."
> > > > ------------------
> > > >
> > > > Here's the thing. Douglas' theory makes no
> > sense
> > > > whatsoever from the orthodox money is a medium
> > of
> > > > exchange perspective. His theory makes perfect
> > sense
> > > > from the creditary perspective expressed by
> > Innes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- William Hugh McGunnigle
> > <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > With due respect the Innes papers were designed
> > to try
> > > > to demonstrate that there was no control of
> > coinage in
> > > > the dark ages. They ignored to a large extent
> > the fact
> > > > that monarchs used the "tally stick" to keep
> > track of
> > > > finances and these were used for "tax
> > assessment".
> > > > Coin value was related to these. I therefore
> > stand by
> > > > my previous statement that, although it appeared
> > that
> > > > coinage was not really under control there was a
> > rigid
> > > > value system related to weight of Gold, Silver
> > and
> > > > Copper metal in coins. The methods of assessing
> > coin
> > > > purity had been established long before the
> > advent of
> > > > the Roman Empire by Archmeides of Greece.
> > Although it
> > > > appeared crude by modern methods of assey it was
> > still
> > > > adequate for practical purposes. Contrary to
> > popular
> > > > belief the men who did this type of assey work
> > were
> > > > skilled and generally honest because they were
> > > > appointed by Royal decree. The penalty for
> > incorrect
> > > > assey was death. Innes work, while skilled and
> > > > undoubtedly honestly conducted, suffered from an
> > > > obvious bias. He was selective in his choice of
> > > > primary sources and tended to ignore sources
> > that
> > > > contradicted his basic premises. In all fairness
> > he is
> > > > not the only historian to do this, but he is
> > open to
> > > > strong critisism because of it. I personally
> > cannot
> >
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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