| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic Bridger | | Date: | Sunday, April 22, 2007 01:33:32 (-0600) | | From: | Wallace Klinck <wmklinck @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4715 (written by Peter) |
Sorry, Peter--there were repeated messages saying that the message
remained in cue for days but could not be delivered. Will try
again. The file is only 136 kb.
Wally
On 18-Apr-07, at 11:43 PM, Peter wrote:
> Wally, nothing came though, there was no attachment. Try again
> please.
>
> Peter
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wallace Klinck" <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic Bridger
>
>
>> Peter, I attach by personal message an article in PDF format
>> titled "The Cancellation Bogie" by Robert Purchase from TSC (Oct.
>> 8,1937) for your interest. The SC Consumer Credits have old
>> costs which have arisen from prior production loans waiting as a
>> claim against them. When they are paid they against them and are
>> extinguished as purchasing-power as are, simultaneously, the
>> debts in question. These Credits are created "debt-free" in the
>> sense that they incur no new debt but they are not "debt-free" in
>> the sense that old debts are waiting to claim and extinguish them.
>> Sincerely
>> Wally
>> On 16-Apr-07, at 5:55 PM, Joe Thomson wrote:
>>> (Peter wrote:-) "Joes' proposal is that the dividend is
>>> effectively to pay
>>> debt, which isnt
>>> expressed by Douglas. The dividend is to compensate the fault
>>> in the
>>> costing -accounting system."
>>>
>>> (Joe replies:-) But Peter, what does the un-compensated "fault
>>> in the
>>> cost-accounting system" lead to?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 3:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic Bridger
>>>
>>>
>>>> No one advocated that the current system should be changed to
>>>> that whereby
>>>> the money supply should 'spent into circulation' by govt, so I dont
>>>> understand why Joe addressed it as if Richard had when he
>>>> clearly said it
>>>> could one means of doing so among others. Such an alternatiuve
>>>> would be
>>> as
>>>> bad if not worse than what we have. I agree with Bill McG that
>>>> we need to
>>>> 'change the way it ( the money system) operates' and that there
>>>> has been
>>> no
>>>> clear answering proposals originating from correspondents.
>>>> Joes' proposal is that the dividend is effectively to pay debt,
>>>> which isnt
>>>> expressed by Douglas. The dividend is to compensate the fault
>>>> in the
>>>> costing -accounting system.
>>>> The banks left intact, given their history of strategies to
>>>> protect their
>>>> domain can tighten the money supply ( think what that will do
>>>> to the near
>>>> hundred percent household debt in the developed world!) and
>>>> soak up the
>>>> dividend faster or flood the market as against the Greenback
>>>> and blame the
>>>> inflation on the dividend, alternate both. The political fall
>>>> out will as
>>>> usual be too much for the public to handle.
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest that the main difference between Indonesia and
>>>> a first
>>> world
>>>> country is that the infastructural development and use of
>>>> resourses were
>>>> well established ( under Keynesian policy) before Bretten
>>>> Woods and the
>>> IMF
>>>> were let loose on the world. However the developed world is
>>>> having to
>>> face
>>>> a major renewing of the old infratsructures and to let the
>>>> banks remain in
>>>> charge through that phase will reduce the gap between Indonesia
>>>> and us a
>>> lot
>>>> smaller. Aklready poverty is amjor problem in the developed
>>>> world.
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 1:14 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic
>>>> Bridger
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Reply to Joe:
>>>>> I appreciated your discourse Joe, and find
>>>>> no reason
>>> to
>>>>> argue with you. Indeed I thought that the general tenor of my last
>>> missive
>>>>> covered all your points. Quite obviously I have failed, in
>>>>> print, to
>>>>> convey the message that you have expressed so effectively. I
>>>>> will need
>>> to
>>>>> chose my words more carefully in future.
>>>>> regards
>>>>> Bill McG
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 1:08 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic
>>>>> Bridger
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe both Richard Cook and Bill McGunnigle are still
>>>>>> largely
>>> missing
>>>>>> the point. The purpose of any economic system should be to
>>>>>> deliver the
>>>>>> 'physically possible' goods and services that are needed and
>>>>>> desired by
>>>>>> CONSUMERS. Each and every one of us, as INDIVIDUALS. For
>>>>>> we are ALL
>>>>>> 'consumers', even though it is no longer necessary, or even
>>>>>> desirable,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we ALL be 'producers'. At least in the traditional sense we
>>>>>> once
>>> were.
>>>>>> And this is true whether we're residents of the USA, New
>>>>>> Zealand,
>>>>>> Indonesia, or wherever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look around your own country. How many people, whatever the
>>>>>> accepted
>>>>>> standard of living, wherever you are, are living right now at a
>>>>>> 'subsistence' level. And are unable to rise above it. The
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> difference between there, (places like Indonesia, the 'Third-
>>>>>> World'),
>>> and
>>>>>> here, is the accepted standard of living here is higher. But
>>>>>> so, too,
>>> is
>>>>>> the level of OVERALL personal indebtedness. We, on average,
>>>>>> live
>>> higher
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the hog, but we're also 'financially' far deeper in the bog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The reason for that all that 'personal' indebtedness, in our
>>>>>> 'First-World'
>>>>>> countries, ISN'T that the 'GOVERNMENT' doesn't "create money
>>>>>> and spend
>>> it
>>>>>> into circulation on public works". A policy which will
>>>>>> ultimately
>>> only
>>>>>> lead to greater 'debt', only to a different party. (Higher
>>>>>> taxes ~ as
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 'debt' is now owed, and must be repaid, to the 'Government',
>>>>>> which in
>>>>>> spite
>>>>>> of what many may think, is NOT the same as you and I as
>>>>>> 'Individuals'.
>>>>>> And
>>>>>> it will be repaid. Either through those higher taxes
>>>>>> directly. Or
>>>>>> indirectly, through the cruelest tax of them all , inflation. Or
>>> likely
>>>>>> both.).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only solution to this, if we truly DO believe that
>>>>>> "systems were
>>> made
>>>>>> for man, and not man for systems" ~ in other words, that the
>>> 'individual'
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the most important element, and that 'society' is formed for the
>>> service
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> each of us, as 'individuals' ~ is to make it possible for OVERALL
>>> 'debt',
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> matter whether it's to its creator as a private bank, a
>>>>>> Government
>>> bank,
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> the 'Treasury", to be always completely capable of 'self-
>>>>>> liquidation'.
>>>>>> This
>>>>>> it presently is NOT!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We can only do this by the proper periodic distribution of
>>>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> amounts of 'debt-free' new credit directly to CONSUMERS. To
>>>>>> ensure
>>> that
>>>>>> 'past' aggregate debt is always capable of being fully self
>>>>>> liquidating
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> it comes due in the 'present'. Even though 'future' debt may
>>>>>> continue
>>> to
>>>>>> grow as we continue to add necessary 'real production' capacity,
>>>>>> (including
>>>>>> 'public works', if they are truly necessary, which many no
>>>>>> doubt are),
>>> we
>>>>>> will then always be fully capable of its liquidation as it
>>>>>> comes due.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We CAN NOT make it so merely by "spending money into
>>>>>> circulation for
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> works, infratructure, statues to great leaders, armaments,
>>>>>> etc." as
>>>>>> proposed. That only replaces one debt with another. A larger
>>>>>> one,
>>> that
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> itself can only be paid by an endless repitition of the process.
>>> Which
>>>>>> will culminate in an orgy of 'physical destruction', ultimately
>>>>>> accomplished through 'war', and carried out in a mindless
>>>>>> attempt to
>>> make
>>>>>> the 'facts' fit the 'figures', rather than properly having the
>>> 'figures'
>>>>>> reflect the 'facts'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Ryan has provided the background for, and possibilities
>>>>>> of, a
>>>>>> method
>>>>>> by which, in the USA at least, we might move from where we
>>>>>> presently
>>> are
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> where we'd like to go. I think it is a very interesting
>>>>>> approach to a
>>>>>> subject which has not, to my knowledge, been approached from that
>>>>>> direction
>>>>>> before. I have some concerns, and doubtless others will
>>>>>> surface, about
>>>>>> certain aspects of what's proposed. I'm optimistic those
>>>>>> concerns will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> examined and addressed, and I believe they will be.
>>>>>> Regardless, I
>>>>>> believe
>>>>>> Bill Ryan has been consistant in his approach towards increasing
>>>>>> financial
>>>>>> 'freedom for the individual' rather than in merely proposing
>>>>>> a 'change
>>> of
>>>>>> masters'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Richard Cook" <rickycook21@hotmail.com>
>>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:57 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from Vic
>>>>>> Bridger
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The delusion is that a country needs someone else's money,
>>>>>>> such as the
>>>>>> U.S.
>>>>>>> dollar, to lubricate their own financial and economic system.
>>>>>>> All
>>> these
>>>>>>> countries have the capability, either on their own or in
>>>>>>> concert with
>>>>>>> others, to generate their own indigenous currency. It could
>>>>>>> be done
>>>>>>> either
>>>>>>> by their government spending it into circulation or by
>>>>>>> issuance of
>>>>>>> credit
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the form of low-interest loans. This is how Colonial America
>>>>>>> built its
>>>>>>> economy, by using scrip. Another example is the use of
>>>>>>> Greenbacks by
>>> the
>>>>>>> U.S. during and after the Civil War. An outside fund source
>>>>>>> is not
>>>>>>> needed
>>>>>>> for indigenous currency which any nation can use to develop
>>>>>>> its own
>>>>>>> resources. It can then sell some of these products to overseas
>>> customers
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> acquire currency to use in foreign trade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from
>>>>>>>> Vic Bridger
>>>>>>>> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:37:28 +1200
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> W.H.McGunnigle: comments on Reply by William B. Ryan
>>>>>>>> Your comments with respect to Major
>>>>>>>> Douglas do
>>> have
>>>>>>>> some relevance considering that the financial position
>>>>>>>> globally is
>>> far
>>>>>>>> different than in his day. Nevertheless his basic axiom,
>>>>>>>> namely that
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> money in circulation in our present system of financial
>>>>>>>> managent, is
>>>>>> always
>>>>>>>> smaller than the amount of goods and services that can be made
>>>>>>>> available
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> everyone, still holds true. The biggest problem facing monetary
>>>>>>>> reformers
>>>>>>>> is CHANGING the way it operates. While I look with interest
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> arguments put forward about A+B I have yet to see someone
>>>>>>>> who offers
>>> a
>>>>>>>> tangible and viable method of reducing indeptedness to the
>>>>>>>> private
>>>>>> banking
>>>>>>>> system. This compounding problem is the reason why resource
>>>>>>>> rich
>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>>> like Indonesia have a massive amount of poverty among its
>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>> population. I do know that many of these "third world"
>>>>>>>> resource rich
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> cash poor countries are now realising that they will get no
>>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>> from industrialised developed countries beyond that which will
>>> maintain
>>>>>>>> them at a bare subsistance level, and that they have to adopt
>>> financial
>>>>>>>> methods that bypass the IMF and World Bank to avoid the
>>>>>>>> crippling
>>> debt
>>>>>>>> burden preventing them from self-financing their own
>>>>>>>> developement.
>>>>>>>> They are looking with favour on Socred type methods to
>>>>>>>> do this
>>>>>>>> despite efforts by the IMF and World Bank to prevent it.
>>>>>>>> respectfully submitted
>>>>>>>> Bill McGunnigle
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:26 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Some Forwarded Comments from
>>>>>>>> Vic Bridger
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe, I look on Vic Bridger and also Wally Klinck as
>>>>>>>>> being in somewhat the position of being village
>>>>>>>>> priests in a near dead religion, who have done great
>>>>>>>>> service in preserving the ancient texts of the founder
>>>>>>>>> of their religion, inasmuch as the ancient texts have
>>>>>>>>> disappeared practically everywhere else. They are,
>>>>>>>>> however, in my opinion, not necessarily the best
>>>>>>>>> interpreters of the ancient texts. By saying this I
>>>>>>>>> mean no disrespect whatsoever. They have both been
>>>>>>>>> exceedingly helpful to me in supplying much of the
>>>>>>>>> Douglas literature that they have maintained in their
>>>>>>>>> personal archives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I regard C. H. Douglas as having been a true though
>>>>>>>>> flawed genius, flawed in the sense that every one of
>>>>>>>>> us is flawed. He was poorly understood by not only
>>>>>>>>> his detractors, but also his supporters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I see very little in the historic Social Credit
>>>>>>>>> literature apart from Douglas' own writings that is
>>>>>>>>> worth reading today.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --- Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vic Bridger wrote the following 'off-list' private
>>>>>>>>> comments as part of an e-mail to Keith Wilde, with a
>>>>>>>>> copy to myself, and has agreed they may be more useful
>>>>>>>>> if forwarded to the List.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They were made on April 8th, and convey some of his
>>>>>>>>> thoughts on the subjects under discussion on the List
>>>>>>>>> under the heading, "In Reply to Keith, more on A+B",
>>>>>>>>> up to that date.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> While Vic did not say so to me specifically in a later
>>>>>>>>> e-mail , I don't believe his position has changed from
>>>>>>>>> what's appeared on the List under that same heading
>>>>>>>>> since then. He also notes, "The next Australasian
>>>>>>>>> (Social Credit-Joe) Journal contains much on what has
>>>>>>>>> been said on the Elistas group discussion particularly
>>>>>>>>> with regards to the Banking system, the National
>>>>>>>>> Credit Authority, Debt and Controls."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (Vic Bridger wrote, [addressed to Keith] :-) "I am
>>>>>>>>> taking the trouble to send this message to you,
>>>>>>>>> hopefully, to explain some differences I have with
>>>>>>>>> what has been posted on the Elistas group discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bill responded to you on April 5th regarding your
>>>>>>>>> comment that "the Social Credit solution would have a
>>>>>>>>> government office to calculate the precise amount of
>>>>>>>>> new claims to goods and services."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Whilst I agree with your comment I believe it could
>>>>>>>>> have been worded a little better but your meaning was
>>>>>>>>> clear enough. I notice the comments re the name of the
>>>>>>>>> government office and also the comments about
>>>>>>>>> corruption, which I find rather silly. If there are
>>>>>>>>> people who are concerned about what might happen under
>>>>>>>>> a Social Credit system, why are they not doing
>>>>>>>>> something about the corruption that is rife under the
>>>>>>>>> current system?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Social Credit policy is not about attempting to
>>>>>>>>> change human nature nor does it make any claim to
>>>>>>>>> absolute perfection in ALL things. It is simply a
>>>>>>>>> method to arrest the flaw in the financial accounting
>>>>>>>>> system to reflect facts. It makes no claim to
>>>>>>>>> establishing a system that would lead to some sort of
>>>>>>>>> utopia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bill has completely missed the point and his
>>>>>>>>> diversion into the A+B is way off track. I believe
>>>>>>>>> that although he accepts the A+B Theorem as being
>>>>>>>>> correct he attempts to read too much into it. For
>>>>>>>>> instance although he brings "TIME" into his graph it
>>>>>>>>> is simply a recognition that time is a factor. However
>>>>>>>>> not only is it a factor but also it is a crucial
>>>>>>>>> factor, which cannot be graphed, in a static
>>>>>>>>> condition. The economy is not static but dynamic and
>>>>>>>>> whatever may be the position at any point of time will
>>>>>>>>> be different one millisecond later.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The only way to determine what we refer to as a
>>>>>>>>> deficiency, in any particular period, is after the
>>>>>>>>> event, in other words after the period has ended. Dr.
>>>>>>>>> Tudor Jones, the Chairnan who followed Douglas wrote a
>>>>>>>>> series of lectures published under the title of
>>>>>>>>> Elements of Social Credit. One lecture is devoted to
>>>>>>>>> the "notion of sufficiency". I will not repeat this
>>>>>>>>> here and if you do not have this book I can send you a
>>>>>>>>> copy of the lecture.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Bill brings into his argument such items as "Sales"
>>>>>>>>> and "Expenditure" neither, of which have any relation
>>>>>>>>> to the A+B Theorem. The A+B relates to Wages, Salaries
>>>>>>>>> and Dividends and Prices. One might argue that
>>>>>>>>> "Prices" and "Sales" are synonymous but this is quite
>>>>>>>>> incorrect. The price of an article, for the purpose of
>>>>>>>>> explaining the A+B is an accumulation of costs, some
>>>>>>>>> of which are distributed and some which are not
>>>>>>>>> distributed in a particular period of production.
>>>>>>>>> Sales of an article are not necessarily equivalent to
>>>>>>>>> the Price, which contains all costs. As Douglas quite
>>>>>>>>> correctly pointed out, sales below cost or at cost are
>>>>>>>>> in fact one way of reducing the deficiency in
>>>>>>>>> purchasing power (not money).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Expenditure is not synonymous with "Costs" and is
>>>>>>>>> misleading in that there are two types of expenditure.
>>>>>>>>> One is for wages, salaries and dividends (A) and other
>>>>>>>>> payments (B) that are again of two types for the
>>>>>>>>> purpose of explanation. One is payments to other
>>>>>>>>> organizations for past transactions and the other is
>>>>>>>>> for items for which no actual "expenditure" has taken
>>>>>>>>> place, i.e. depreciation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The comment in his paragraph 4, "Not graphed is real
>>>>>>>>> production." is pointless. It is not necessary,
>>>>>>>>> desirable to attempt and impossible to keep (A+B) or
>>>>>>>>> (A) constant in relation to production. This together
>>>>>>>>> with his supposition on monetary policy as an "easy
>>>>>>>>> money policy" is a reflection of his orthodox economic
>>>>>>>>> training and has nothing to do with Social Credit
>>>>>>>>> proposals. Monetary policy, easy or restricted, has
>>>>>>>>> nothing to do with Social Credit proposals.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Other issues he brings in such as credit becoming to
>>>>>>>>> loose or too tight, open market, purchasing or selling
>>>>>>>>> of securities are again issues relating to current
>>>>>>>>> orthodox economic, financial and monetary policies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "There are a number of other items with which I could
>>>>>>>>> take issue but find unnecessary to deliberate on
>>>>>>>>> here."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> (End of quoted part)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Do You Yahoo!?
>>>>>>>>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>> http://mail.yahoo.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -- -
>>>>>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of
>>>>>>>>> this list are
>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>>>>> wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>>>>>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>>>>>>> socialcredit
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> -- ----
>>>>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>>>>>>> list are
>>> at
>>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>>>> rickycook21@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>>>>>> socialcredit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>> MSN is giving away a trip to Vegas to see Elton John. Enter
>>>>>>> to win
>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>> http://msnconcertcontest.com?icid-nceltontagline
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> -- ---
>>>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>>>>>> list are
>>> at
>>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>>> thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>>>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>>>>> socialcredit
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> -- --
>>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>>>>> list are at
>>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>>>>> wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>>>> socialcredit
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -- -
>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>>>> list are at
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz
>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>>> socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
>>>> list are at
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/
>>>> socialcredit
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>>> are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>> are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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