| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Bryan W. Monahan | | Date: | Tuesday, April 24, 2007 22:51:54 (+1200) | | From: | Peter <cymric @.......nz>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4720 (written by Joe Thomson) |
The financing of industry is obviously the "Just Price Mechanism" which is,
as Vic Bridger says, and I agree the preferred and I believe the original
choice of Douglas rather than the option of the consumer discount which is
another way of reducing prices. If the dividend can be likened to a reverse
tax to the consumer then this is a reverse tax to the producer. It isnt a
cost so the goods produced will be that much cheaper. It discounts the cost
of production ( macro) and avoid alot of accounting which the discount would
entail, including bank charges. Its also hugely more politically expedient
as I suspect the dividend and discount together would get shot down and
buried very deeply by class conscious sections of the community.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Bryan W. Monahan
>( Bill Ryan quoted, from Monahan's "Introduction to Social Credit" :-)
> "The money required for government purposes must be contributed out of the
> _distributed_ money in the way
> as the funds of a club are derived from the
> subscriptions of its members.)
>
> "To give effect to these general relationships, there needs to be a
> credit-issuing organisation with a constitutional status equivalent to
> that
> of, say, the Auditor-General. To this organisation would fall the keeping
> of the national accounts, and the computation of the price factor; and it
> might quite suitably be the organisation through which the national
> dividend
> was distributed, the price-subsidy adjusted, and the financing of
> production
> initiated."
>
> ( Joe replies:-) "....and the financing of production initiated.". It
> would be no surprise to me that this statement, even when read in
> context
> of what Monahan has written in that piece previously, still might
> cause
> some confusion.
>
> Perhaps, Bill, you might care to elaborate on that so that what Monahan is
> really getting at is made completely clear?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: [socialcredit] Bryan W. Monahan
>
>
>> The following is excerpted from Bryan W. Monahan's
>> 1947 book, *An introduction to Social Credit*, which
>> was graciously sent to me by Victor Bridger. Monahan
>> was, I believe, the third chairman of the Social
>> Credit Secretariat, following Dr. Tudor Jones, who had
>> been deputy chairman under C. H. Douglas.
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>> It is now possible to see the practical basis of the
>> proper limitation of Government to its legitimate
>> functions.
>>
>> We have already seen that the power to contract-out is
>> an essential aspect of genuine democracy. But, apart
>> from suicide, it is impossible, or nearly impossible,
>> to contract-out of Society. Consequently, it is
>> absolutely essential to protect the individual with
>> "_the equivalent of a Bill of Rights ultra vires of
>> parliament, together with a permanent professional
>> body, trained to attack not only an existing law, but
>> armed with permanent power to bring out into the open
>> for cross-examination at any time the originators of
>> any law which encroaches on these rights..._
>>
>> "One of the first results of such an arrangement would
>> be an arrest in the flow of law-making. If the world
>> is regarded as a factory run by officials on would-be
>> mass-production lines, continuous works-orders
>> camouflaged as laws are inevitable, though quite
>> rapidly fatal. But, in a world in which it is
>> realised that the more action is spontaneous within
>> the limits of personal sovereignty the less the
>> friction and the higher the general satisfaction, they
>> are both redundant and objectionable." (C. H. Douglas:
>> *The Brief for the Prosecution*)
>>
>> Such a Bill of Rights provides an area of personal
>> sovereignty into which the individual can withdraw,
>> and out of which he can emerge into functional
>> activities of his choice, in which he subordinates
>> himself to the necessities of functional organisation.
>> This is like the club member who elects to play in
>> some particular game.
>>
>> Next, the individual must derive his income "from
>> outside," so to speak, and contribute money to such
>> organisations, including Government, as he desires to
>> support.
>>
>> That is to say, _the Government should have no access
>> to the general credit of the community except through
>> independent citizens._ It should have no powers of
>> taxation except the power to collect "subscriptions"
>> as agreed to by citizens acting through their
>> Representatives in Parliament.
>>
>> Again, we see that the nationalisation of banking is
>> exactly the wrong thing, since it gives the Government
>> direct access to the general credit.
>>
>> Once the idea of the Government as the "Big Boss" is
>> cleared away, it is much easier to discern its
>> legitimate functions.
>>
>> Perhaps the first of these functions is that of
>> maintaining the rights of the individual by providing
>> for the proper mechanisms for the administration of
>> Justice--again, a reversal of the present usurpation
>> of the functions of the Courts of Law by the
>> "administrative lawlessness" of the bureaucracy.
>>
>> Secondly, the Government has a function as a General
>> Committee of Society.
>>
>> And thirdly, it has a function as a Board of
>> Directors.
>>
>> It is legitimate for the Government (Cabinet) to
>> propose to Parliament (the Representatives of the
>> Shareholders) general expenditure to enhance the
>> general real credit. It is the function of Parliament
>> to authorise or to refuse such expenditure.
>>
>> It is legitimate for the Government to recommend the
>> rate of dividend distribution, on the basis of
>> properly kept accounts relating to the affairs of
>> Society. (For example, the plant and resources of the
>> community can be "valued" as capital assets, and this
>> gives an approximation to the real credit of the
>> community if the various factors are properly taken
>> into account. This figure can be given a "capital"
>> value in monetary terms, and a "rate of dividend," for
>> example, 5% or 10%, declared. This provides a general
>> income, to be allocated as between general individual
>> dividends to citizens, wages and salaries, and
>> subsidies to adjust prices to the physical facts. The
>> money required for government purposes must be
>> contributed out of the _distributed_ money in the way
>> as the funds of a club are derived from the
>> subscriptions of its members.)
>>
>> To give effect to these general relationships, there
>> needs to be a credit-issuing organisation with a
>> constitutional status equivalent to that of, say, the
>> Auditor-General. To this organisation would fall the
>> keeping of the national accounts, and the computation
>> of the price factor; and it might quite suitably be
>> the organisation through which the national dividend
>> was distributed, the price-subsidy adjusted, and the
>> financing of production initiated.
>>
>> In principle, and potentially, most of the
>> organisations necessary to implement genuine democracy
>> exist, and there is no difficulty in adapting these
>> organisations to their proper functions.
>>
>> __________________________________________________
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>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
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