| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] in point of clarification | | Date: | Saturday, May 19, 2007 21:26:16 (-0400) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4772 (written by Peter) |
(Peter wrote:-) The 'perfect analogy' is perhaps more cogent as a
demostration that there is
no debt in the natural world.
(Joe replies:-) No, while I think you're right, "there is no debt in
nature", I believe the 'perfect analogy' of the Leap Year that Bill cited
demonstates that it's unnecessary to 'record' everything in 'figures'
absolutely perfectly to be useful. That we can still always keep what we
have recorded accurate enough, (through periodic adjustment of those
'figures'), for the actual, day-to-day purposes for which we want to use
them.
(Peter continues:-) The other point is the current system and Social Credit
(which is science
based on reality) can't both make the same claim. If they can then Douglas
was deluded. These are philosophically opposites and a mere technical
'adjustment' to the current system doesn't balance opposites.
(Joe replies:-) I don't know about that. In accounting a 'debit' entry on
one side of the ledger is balanced by a corresponding 'credit' entry on the
other, is it not? And if the two sides don't come to a perfect balance, we
look for reasons why. And often make accounting 'adjustments', when and
where necessary, so they do.
It seems to me that this is done pretty well all the time
'micro-economically' in every business now. To try to keep the 'figures' as
representative of 'reality' as we require them to be for whatever purposes
that we want to use them. Why should it be any different in the
'macro-economy'?
I think this leads back to the question of whether, under a 'social credit'
system, private banks would still retain the ability to 'create credit', as
they do now.
Only with what they do create being 'augmented' in its 'reflux' by necessary
periodic 'adjustments' through payouts of additional 'debt-free' Consumer
credits through the ND and CPD. Rather than as now, largely through issue
of ever more credit recorded as further, and repayable in the future,
'debt' .
Or, alternately, whether the ND and CPD are to be the ONLY sources of 'new
credit', with the private banks to become merely 'on-lenders' of their
customer's deposits (derived from this 'credit'), or funds they have
accumulated of their own, or can borrow elsewhere from other institutional
lenders.
Personally, I'm still inclined to believe the first alternative above would
be the easiest to initiate and would work best at present. That it would
progressively lead towards where I believe we want to go ~ to a genuine and
practical 'economic democracy'. But there seems to be a case that can be
made for the latter, too. Though I'm not quite able to embrace it from
what I've seen and understand of it so far.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] in point of clarification
> The 'perfect analogy' is perhaps more cogent as a demostration that there
is
> no debt in the natural world. There is no cost to the adjustment ( time
> lots) that enslaves much of the world.
> The other point is the current system and Social Credit (which is science
> based on reality) cant both make the same claim. If they can then Douglas
> was deluded. These are philosophically opposites and a mere technical
> 'adjustment' to the current system doest balance opposites.
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 4:07 AM
> Subject: [socialcredit] in point of clarification
>
>
> > "I am saying that orthodox thinking can't see any
> > 'gap' because they believe the velocity of money
> > ensures that there is a balance. But we know that
> > it's the steady inflow of new money borrowed that
> > fills the 'gap', which Douglas has referred to as ever
> > increasing debt. The steady inflow, effected by the
> > interest rate mechanism, also pays the interest as
> > well as the theorem gap. The basis of denial is the
> > same for both of them."
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > In point of clarification:
> >
> > Banks are banks, in the sense that loans create
> > deposits and the repayment of loans cancel deposits.
> >
> > Banks are also businesses, in the sense that interest
> > received plus fees and other charges constitute their
> > gross sales, against which expenses are charged in
> > determining their profits. So banks also have A + B
> > payments, as does every commercial enterprise.
> >
> > The "gap" is the result of an decreasing ratio of A to
> > B with labor displacement, in banking together with
> > other commercial enterprises, causing the "reflux"
> > from A to insufficiently amortize A + B as charged
> > against sales at the point of retail, through time.
> > So debt compounds in respect to physical production,
> > distorting contractual relationships.
> >
> > The solution is simply a matter of accounting
> > adjustment.
> >
> > The perfect analogy is to the calendar. It is
> > impossible to devise the perfect calendar, since
> > earth's rotation about the sun cannot be divided into
> > an exact number of whole days.
> >
> > So we adjust the calendar through leap years from time
> > to time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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