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Re: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
debt is simply a f william_
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Sieg Heil! william_
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Reply to a message Wallace
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Eric V. Encina to Eric Enc
RE: [socialcredit] chickhur
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Question from the Joe Thom
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
RE: [socialcredit] Eric Enc
monetary "reform" william_
more on Swanwick william_
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Re: [socialcredit] william_
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
Replying to John H william_
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] Martin H
RE: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
Re: [socialcredit] John G R
C. H. Douglas and Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: Michael Hudson william_
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Re: [socialcredit] Peter
Re: [socialcredit] Joe Thom
Douglas to the Mac william_
Re: [socialcredit] Wallace
Re: [socialcredit] keith wi
Re: Are bank depos John Her
100 per cent banki John Her
Re: [socialcredit] John Her
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Message 4836     < Previous | Next >
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool
Date:Saturday, June 2, 2007  12:38:59 (-0600)
From:Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>
In reply to:Message 4835 (written by Joe Thomson)

Joe -

Thanks for the voice of experience. The trouble about Social Credit in 
politics is precisely that "the people get the government they deserve", and 
if they don't want "funny money", the votes don't come in. Quebec was the 
province where Social Credit was sold most effectively, by Louis Even and 
Real Caouette, but even there, the steam ran out, and the movement morphed 
in the end into the Quebec separatist movement.

I thought you might be interested in an evaluation of Social Credit's 
decline in Alberta, written by the former Provincial Treasurer, Ted Hinman. 
To me, it seems as if the Manning family found genuine Social Credit 
unsaleable, and morphed the Provincial support into the "Reform" party under 
Preston - which asked for every sort of reform except monetary reform!

In fairness, we also have to remember that Candian Provincial governments 
are constrained by the Candian constitution from dealing with Banking and 
Finance, which are Federal fields of activity. The Alberta Treasury Branches 
are about as far as the Alberta Government could go in challenging the 
existing financial system. They are still a (very successful) anomaly in the 
banking field.


Martin Hattersley
5929 - 189 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1

e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool


> Hi Wally,
>
> Thanks for an excellent post on the 'failings' of 'political Party' Social
> Credit here and in Alberta, and on the subject heading..
>
> If I might elaborate a little more on the experience in BC.  You wrote:-
> "The B. C.
> "Social Credit" Government gave miniscule lip-service to Social  Credit 
> but
> appeared to either know, or care, little about genuine   Social Credit
> policy.  Perhaps they thought it was just a pipe-
> dream?  But perhaps a useful one for getting electoral support?"
>
> I don't believe there WAS any widespread understanding of 'genuine' Social
> Credit policy here at that time, (1952).  Though doubtless some of the 
> long
> time, more 'genuine' Social Crediters running for office tried to engender
> some.
>
> Since several, including, I believe,  the ''campaign Leader'', Alberta
> 'import' Rev. Hansell, were long time  'Douglasites.'   Nearly all of 
> those
> people failed to win election in the ridings they sought to represent,
> however.  Though many did stay active in the background of BC Social 
> Credit
> for a long time afterwards.
>
> Amongst the bulk of those running for office, and their supporters, 
> "Social
> Credit" was seen, and often 'sold',  more as a way to get 'interest-free'
> money, primarily for Government, than 'debt-free' money for consumers.
>
> Mostly though, because we had a 'single transferable ballot' in that
> election, the Socreds got in because they were most people's, including 
> the
> 'socialists', second choice. And there was no clear 'first choice' winner.
>
> In the minds of those running, and the public voting, as in the minds of
> many 'political Party' Socreds today here and in other countries, 
> "interest"
> was the great evil.
>
> This was why Bennett made such a big thing of his  Government's move  to
> ''stop borrowing''. To  ''free the Government from the clutches of the
> rapacious Bankers".  To ''balance the budget", or, if possible,  run a
> 'surplus' to build up the bank account, and save on paying further 
> 'usury'.
>
> That was the perception of  "Social Credit" created, and one that's long
> endured.  Even amongst the present followers of the now miniscule BC 
> Social
> Credit "Party".
>
> It was, however, also a fair bit more complicated than that.  BC Social
> Credit, unlike in Alberta, was not elected initially, nor in any of the
> elections subsequently over its first 20 years in power, with a commanding
> majority of the popular vote.
>
> To seek a 'mandate' based on a conception that few understood, and those
> that did had failed to adequately convey to the electorate, or 
> alternately,
> that electorate had  'rejected', would've been political suicide.
>
> The 'public' didn't overhwelmingly embrace the idea here, even the
> 'distorted' version Bennett offered, because, I believe, the 'culture' and
> background of the Province is far different from that of Alberta.
>
> 'Socialism' was far deeper rooted here, and there was a widespread belief
> that the "government" should "do things for you".  Rather than enabling 
> you
> to "do things for yourself."
>
> While Alberta got the "Populists" as the American frontier closed, we got
> the "Socialists" from western Montana and the Idaho panhandle mining
> regions.  Then very definitely the 'hotbeds' of American radical Labour.
>
> Couple that with the 'British' working-class 'Labour' types who manned 
> much
> of the industry in the larger Coastal cities, a dose of eastern European
> 'anarchists', and others from Scandinavia and Germany who had experience
> with 'socialist' movements in those countries, and put them all into 
> what's
> been described often as the "Company" Province, (since much of our 
> industry
> here was very capital intensive, even early on), and you didn't exactly 
> get
> the most 'favourable' seedbed for Social Credit.
>
> Even a dedicated, 'genuine' Social Credit administration would've had
> problems in a situation like that.  The great failing, in my  opinion, was
> not in the way Bennett governed.  He gave the people largely what they
> wanted. And delivered it very efficiently.  "That is moral which works
> best."
>
>  But he either forgot, or never really knew, after his administration had
> achieved a high level of Provincial development, just how to effectively
> deal with 'inflation'. At that juncture, a more 'genuine' Social Credit
> might well have been 'politically' saleable.  Especially since there was a
> widespread dislike of the Federal government prevalent here at that time.
>
> Why he didn't attempt to go that way, I could only speculate.  And my 
> guess
> is he was getting old, and despite his 'financial' innovativeness, 
> couldn't
> ever make a complete break from 'orthodoxy'.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
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CONFIDENTIAL 
 
 
	A POST ELECTION LOOK AT SOCIAL CREDIT 
							 
						E. W. Hinman 
 
		I am somewhat disturbed that since the election our whole  
 
concern seems to be getting back in power. We speculate persistently as  
 
to the various factors which may have contributed to our defeat and on how  
 
we can discredit the Conservatives, in the light of the many promises which  
 
we feel sure they cannot fulfill. 
 
 
		If we lost the election because we stood firm on the policies 
 
which are consistent with the basic philosophies of Social Credit, then we 
 
are vindicated. If we lost because we had departed from these basic concepts, 
 
then the loss can be a blessing, if it returns us to an evaluation of these 
 
concepts. 
 
 
	In the beginning, Social Credit was a movement with no intention 
 
of taking direct political action. The philosophies of Social Credit, especially

 
with regard to monetary reform, were offered to all parties and turned down 
 
with ridicule by each party in turn and so the battle was joined - on one side 
 
a growing turn to the law of the jungle manifest in statism, centralization of 
 
authority and militant materialism - on the other, a firm acceptance of the 
 
sanctity of the individual and his basic freedoms and responsiblities and a 
 
militant Christianity, the only true basis for democracy. 
 
 
	On the one hand - communism, naziism, facism, all collectivists, 
 
differing only in their approach to totalitarianism - all holding in the
spotlight 
 
the hope of banishing povery and providing the good life - all calling for 
 
the surrender of individual achievement and growth - an eventual state slavery 
 
of citizens. 
 
 
 
 
				- 2 -	 
 
	The collectivists cared not for the masses. These were but fodder 
 
for the grist of the materialistic state. They outlawed religion and cultivated 
 
that nihilism which rejects all accepted values of morality. They concerned 
 
themselves with the opinion moulders, the natural leaders on whom the masses 
 
depended, the professionals in mass psychology, long practised in duplicity and 
 
motivated by greed and lust for power. They brainwashed youth, put them in
camps, 
 
cultivated their ego until youth became a tool for building statism. There arose

 
such men as Stalin, Mussolini and Hitler - men of great intellect, highly
capable 
 
of great personal appeal. These men surrounded themselves with great
propagandists 
 
who persuaded the elected bodies of the day to place more and more power into
the 
 
hands of these falsely venerated leaders until the day came when the elected
bodies 
 
found that they had surrendered all power. 
 
 
		At first, these top men were promoted and supported by great money 
 
powers who thought to control them for their own materialistic purposes but,
alas, 
 
the great depression, purposely manouvered it seemed by the money powers to
enhance 
 
their wealth and power, got out of control and over all the world there spread a

 
great poverty - in our country, a poverty in the midst of plenty. 
 
 
		About this time, Mr. William Aberhart had enlisted a large radio 
 
audience for his Prophetic Bible Institute. He was critically aware of what the 
 
depression was doing to the dignity of the individual and the family and, as he 
 
reached out for solutions, he became acquainted with the monetary proposals of 
 
Major Douglas and became convinced that only by restoring the control of
currency 
 
and credit to Parliament could the degrading poverty and breakdown of democracy 
 
be alleviated. 
 
 
 
 
				- 3 - 
 
		A Social Credit League was formed as an organ for those whose 
 
values were in keeping with the Judo-Christian concepts and four basic
principles 
 
were accepted as prime philosophies of those who had joined the fight to improve

 
the conditions of the people of Alberta: 
 
(1) 	That the individual is the most important of God's creatures and that he 
 
	must be provided with every possible means of achieving fulfilment of his 
 
	personal development, in keeping with his talents, his initiative, his 
 
	resourcefulness, so long as in so doing he does not interfere with the 
 
	similar rights of others. 
 
(2) 	That men are entitled to security without surrendering their freedom. 
 
(3) 	That government should work to achieve the results expected by the 
 
	people in the management of their affairs. 
 
(4) 	That whatever is physically possible and desirable can be made financially 
 
	possible. 
 
 
		These basic principles were nurtured in a tradition of Judo-Christian 
 
beliefs in a supreme creator whose blueprint for a world of peace and plenty is 
 
available in scripture and whose aid is available for the asking. 
 
 
		Contrary to the collectivist theory of the day, Mr. Aberhart did care 
 
about the masses and his gospel - religious and economic - was understood by
them 
 
and accepted, in spite of the attempts of the political leaders of the day to
rule 
 
the philosophy out of existence by ridicule and economic pressure. 
 
 
		It was only when it became evident that no existing party was going to 
 
accept the economic theory of Social Credit that Social Credit became a
political 
 
party - won at the polls, and persuaded William Aberhart to run in an arranged
byelection 
 
 
 
 
				- 4 - 
 
and become Premier of Alberta. And what did he find? 
 
(1) 	The Treasury was empty and the credit of the Province exhausted. 
 
(2) 	The Civil Service unpaid. 
 
(3) 	The people burdened with debt to the extent that, in 1935, it took 33.2% of

 
	the wheat crop to pay the interest due. 
 
(4) 	52,000 out of 750,000 people on relief. 
 
(5) 	10,000 heads of families registered as unemployed. 
 
 
		But, Aberhart said ”We have fertile farm lands and rich forests. 
 
We have coal in abundance and a virile, energetic people who are willing to 
 
produce. The Province is as rich as it ever was in natural resources. All we 
 
lack is money.” 
 
 
		How the Social Credit Government weathered the storms is a matter 
 
of history. Its achievements were many. 
 
 
		A staggering public debt was systematically reduced - the resources 
 
of the province were developed under a system which has been copied by many
other 
 
countries. Conservation was a key point from the first; education was placed
within 
 
reach of nearly every family in the province; the hospitalization plan of the 
 
previous government was continued and became a model for Canada; road systems
were 
 
developed; taxes were settled without displacing property owners; many taxes
were 
 
discontinued; individual enterprise was encouraged with full recognition of the 
 
sanctity of personal ownership, a free market-place and a minimum of government.

 
What was right was never sacrificed for what was expedient. It was an enviable  
 
record.  
 
 
 
 
 
				- 5 - 
 
		Then came the war and after it a great economic expansion. The 
 
poverty of the early thirties was seldom remembered. The affluence which spread 
 
out dispelled the gloom of the depression. A new group of M.L.A.ls began 
 
replacing the old ones and there was a forgetting of the basic principles on
which 
 
Social Credit had grown. Socialist thinking became the motivation for new 
 
government policies. 
 
 
(1) 	Centralization of authority began with the formation of large School
Divisions 
 
	and the grass roots practices of democracy died out. 
 
(2) 	The growing power of militant labour organization and professional colleges

 
	was permitted, even encouraged. Inflation was on its way. 
 
(3) 	There was an ever increasing trend toward permissiveness and defiance of
our 
 
	laws and traditions. 
 
(4)	There was a rapid journey down the road to the Welfare State. 
 
(5)	Commissions were endowed with the rights and duties of the Legislature. 
 
(6)	Expenditures of government began to outstrip revenues. 
 
(7)	The freedom of the individual was eroded by legislation which set up
planning  
 
	commissions, marketing boards, etc. 
 
(8) 	The self aggrandizing designs of professionals were adopted as the demands 
 
	of the people. 
 
(9) 	Universities became sheltered areas for misguided intellectuals who
promoted 
 
     	discontent and revolutionary behaviour, under the guise of freedom of
thought. 
 
(10)	Arrogance raised its ugly head in government and civil service. 
 
(11)	Our party M.L.A.'s ceased to pay even lip service to our basic
philosophies. 
 
(12)	We were subjected to a proposal for political realignment which could only 
 
 
 
 
 
				- 6 - 
 
	lead people to believe that we had deserted our tenets and become an ultra- 
 
	conservative party. 
 
(13) 	We failed to project our achievements and purposes in a manner which would

 
	catch the attention and support of newcomers to the province and young people 
 
	just beginning to be politically conscious. 
 
(14) 	By delaying the election, we let it be concluded that we were running
scared. 
 
(15) 	We were out-campaigned by a leadership policy which wasted no time  
 
	criticizing our record but which capitalized on irresponsible promises and  
 
	the psychological impact of “Time for a Change.” 
 
 
 
		So now we aren't the government. What shall we do? 
 
(1) 	Reaffirm our convictions with regard to the basic principles of Social
Credit 
 
	and make these known to our people. 
 
(2) 	Reserve our criticisms of the government for those acts and trends which do

 
	not conform with our basic principles. 
 
(3) 	We must advocate a return to those practices which have been most effective

 
	in maintaining law and order. 
 
(4) 	We must make known our determination to resist collectivism -
centralization 
 
	of authority and welfare statism. 
 
(5) 	We must advocate balanced budgets and resist inflation. 
 
(6) 	We must support the federal organization in its advocacy of monetary reform

 
	and study ways and means of monetary reform within our province. 
 
(7) 	We must re-educate our young people and newcomers to Alberta as to our 
 
	principles, our objectives and the techniques which can be used to implement 
 
	these. 
 
 
 
 
				- 7 - 
 
(8) 	We must banish every last vestige of arrogance, and support, in humility. 
 
	the ethics and moral standards which have made nations great and societies 
 
	peaceful and happy. 
 
(9) 	We must cultivate a responsible citizenship which re~pects law, order and 
 
	the rights of others. 
 
(10) 	We must oppose state paternalism which discourages individual dignity, 
 
	initiative and self-reliance. 
 
(11) 	We must uphold the Constitution as set out in the B.N.A. Act and suspect 
 
	the motives of those who advocate its change. If you will study it, you 
 
	will find it adequate and full of democratic wisdom. 
 
(12) 	We must dedicate our policies to promote 	(a) private ownership 
 
						(b) a free market-place 
 
						(c) limited government. 
 
(13) 	We must popularize the message that the self-discipline of the individual 
 
	is more important than the regimentation of the economic process. 
 
 
		Our supreme concern must ever be with the abiding springs of 
 
action in the human heart. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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