| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool | | Date: | Monday, June 4, 2007 21:52:37 (-0600) | | From: | chickhurst <chickhurst @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4837 (written by Joe Thomson) |
Sorry to cut in after all this time not being in communication but my
absence has been necessary.
I just wanted to point out that Alberta was a hot bed of communism in the
thirties. Tim Buck was a very popular leader who had main streets named
after him in Blairmore, Drumheller and Thorhild. Several times Tim Buck
filled the arena in Calgary to overflowing and the crowds at one meeting
were said to be often in excess of 12000 people. One account I remember
reading about and an elderly friend of mine who's father was a communist at
the time, concurred, the one meeting held in Calgary had over 26000 people
in attendance. My friend attended that meeting but he was very young.
The election of Social Credit stopped the build up of Communism and Tim Buck
lost his momentum but he remained the leader until the early sixties.
Chick
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Thomson [mailto:thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca]
Sent: June 2, 2007 8:15 PM
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool
Thanks, Martin. That's a very interesting read. Wasn't it Hinman who
advised Alaska in the creation of its "Permanent Fund" that pays out
'dividends' every year to each Alaskan citizen?
Perhaps something similar to that would be one way the Provinces, or at
least the 'resource' rich ones, might move towards Social Credit in our
times?
As I recall, WAC Bennett, like your Mr. Manning, always held his political
cards pretty close to his chest. He was a bit of an enigma in his
seriousness in promoting 'genuine' Social Credit. Federally, he actively
backed Real Caouette, who was certainly closer to Douglas's ideas than
national SC leader Robert Thompson ever seemed to be.
And Caouette made a great 'breakthrough' for SC in rural Quebec, though it's
highly doubtful even if he had been national SC Party leader he'd have done
any better out here than Thompson did. Maybe not even as well. Though he
was a terrific orator when he got going.
But getting that number of Socreds elected Federally, especially ones that
were beholden to him for his support, was instrumental in Bennett's getting
the Columbia River Treaty with the USA through a 'minority' government
Federal Parliament.
So, while he could always claim to the 'genuine' Socreds that he was doing
his best to further their cause federally, where 'monetary' changes would
have to be made, actually, it was they who were really doing more to further
his aims provincially. In an area that had very little to do with
traditional 'Social Credit'. Except we got all the dams on our portion of
the Columbia River 'free', courtesy of the US taxpayer! Was he a serious
''Social Crediter" in reality? Or like your Mr. Manning, did he favour
"Social Credit if necessary, but not necessarily "Social Credit." ? We can
only speculate.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Hattersley" <hattersleyjm@interbaun.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool
> Joe -
>
> Thanks for the voice of experience. The trouble about Social Credit in
> politics is precisely that "the people get the government they
> deserve",
and
> if they don't want "funny money", the votes don't come in. Quebec was
> the province where Social Credit was sold most effectively, by Louis
> Even and Real Caouette, but even there, the steam ran out, and the
> movement morphed in the end into the Quebec separatist movement.
>
> I thought you might be interested in an evaluation of Social Credit's
> decline in Alberta, written by the former Provincial Treasurer, Ted
Hinman.
> To me, it seems as if the Manning family found genuine Social Credit
> unsaleable, and morphed the Provincial support into the "Reform" party
under
> Preston - which asked for every sort of reform except monetary reform!
>
> In fairness, we also have to remember that Candian Provincial
> governments are constrained by the Candian constitution from dealing
> with Banking and Finance, which are Federal fields of activity. The
> Alberta Treasury
Branches
> are about as far as the Alberta Government could go in challenging the
> existing financial system. They are still a (very successful) anomaly
> in
the
> banking field.
>
>
> Martin Hattersley
> 5929 - 189 St.,
> EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
>
> e-mail: jmartinh@shaw.ca
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 02, 2007 7:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] debt is simply a financial tool
>
>
> > Hi Wally,
> >
> > Thanks for an excellent post on the 'failings' of 'political Party'
Social
> > Credit here and in Alberta, and on the subject heading..
> >
> > If I might elaborate a little more on the experience in BC. You
> > wrote:- "The B. C.
> > "Social Credit" Government gave miniscule lip-service to Social
> > Credit but
> > appeared to either know, or care, little about genuine Social Credit
> > policy. Perhaps they thought it was just a pipe- dream? But
> > perhaps a useful one for getting electoral support?"
> >
> > I don't believe there WAS any widespread understanding of 'genuine'
Social
> > Credit policy here at that time, (1952). Though doubtless some of
> > the long time, more 'genuine' Social Crediters running for office
> > tried to
engender
> > some.
> >
> > Since several, including, I believe, the ''campaign Leader'', Alberta
> > 'import' Rev. Hansell, were long time 'Douglasites.' Nearly all of
> > those
> > people failed to win election in the ridings they sought to
> > represent, however. Though many did stay active in the background
> > of BC Social Credit for a long time afterwards.
> >
> > Amongst the bulk of those running for office, and their supporters,
> > "Social Credit" was seen, and often 'sold', more as a way to get
'interest-free'
> > money, primarily for Government, than 'debt-free' money for consumers.
> >
> > Mostly though, because we had a 'single transferable ballot' in that
> > election, the Socreds got in because they were most people's,
> > including the 'socialists', second choice. And there was no clear
> > 'first choice'
winner.
> >
> > In the minds of those running, and the public voting, as in the
> > minds of many 'political Party' Socreds today here and in other
> > countries, "interest"
> > was the great evil.
> >
> > This was why Bennett made such a big thing of his Government's move
> > to ''stop borrowing''. To ''free the Government from the clutches
> > of the rapacious Bankers". To ''balance the budget", or, if
> > possible, run a 'surplus' to build up the bank account, and save on
> > paying further 'usury'.
> >
> > That was the perception of "Social Credit" created, and one that's
> > long endured. Even amongst the present followers of the now
> > miniscule BC Social Credit "Party".
> >
> > It was, however, also a fair bit more complicated than that. BC
> > Social Credit, unlike in Alberta, was not elected initially, nor in
> > any of the elections subsequently over its first 20 years in power,
> > with a
commanding
> > majority of the popular vote.
> >
> > To seek a 'mandate' based on a conception that few understood, and
> > those that did had failed to adequately convey to the electorate, or
> > alternately, that electorate had 'rejected', would've been
> > political suicide.
> >
> > The 'public' didn't overhwelmingly embrace the idea here, even the
> > 'distorted' version Bennett offered, because, I believe, the 'culture'
and
> > background of the Province is far different from that of Alberta.
> >
> > 'Socialism' was far deeper rooted here, and there was a widespread
belief
> > that the "government" should "do things for you". Rather than
> > enabling you to "do things for yourself."
> >
> > While Alberta got the "Populists" as the American frontier closed,
> > we
got
> > the "Socialists" from western Montana and the Idaho panhandle mining
> > regions. Then very definitely the 'hotbeds' of American radical Labour.
> >
> > Couple that with the 'British' working-class 'Labour' types who
> > manned much of the industry in the larger Coastal cities, a dose of
> > eastern European 'anarchists', and others from Scandinavia and
> > Germany who had experience with 'socialist' movements in those
> > countries, and put them all into what's been described often as the
> > "Company" Province, (since much of our industry here was very
> > capital intensive, even early on), and you didn't exactly get the
> > most 'favourable' seedbed for Social Credit.
> >
> > Even a dedicated, 'genuine' Social Credit administration would've
> > had problems in a situation like that. The great failing, in my
> > opinion,
was
> > not in the way Bennett governed. He gave the people largely what
> > they wanted. And delivered it very efficiently. "That is moral
> > which works best."
> >
> > But he either forgot, or never really knew, after his
> > administration
had
> > achieved a high level of Provincial development, just how to
> > effectively deal with 'inflation'. At that juncture, a more
> > 'genuine' Social Credit might well have been 'politically' saleable.
> > Especially since there was
a
> > widespread dislike of the Federal government prevalent here at that
time.
> >
> > Why he didn't attempt to go that way, I could only speculate. And
> > my guess is he was getting old, and despite his 'financial'
> > innovativeness, couldn't ever make a complete break from
> > 'orthodoxy'.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
> > are at http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email
> > hattersleyjm@interbaun.com For more information, visit
> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> >
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> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca For
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Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email chickhurst@shaw.ca For more
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