| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] douglas-alberta-1934 | | Date: | Saturday, August 18, 2007 08:30:52 (-0400) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4988 (written by Peter) |
(Peter wrote:-) Joe if the 'macro'-factor is the ultra-determinant then the
dividend cant be
paid to the individual nor a discount.
(Joe replies:-) Why not? Are we not concerned that there be an accounting
'correction' of the flaw as that applies to the WHOLE ('macro') economy?
Why even have a set of 'National' accounts if we're not going to apply what
they tell us to determine the appropriate correction necessary?
>
(Peter continues:-) The 'credit' to producers isnt 'debt' to producers and
the purpose is to
keep this cost out of prices. If you want it in prices then it is a debt
to be repaid.
(Joe replies:-) But if you credit individual producers directly, how then
can you say there is CONSUMER control over (ALL) 'production'? Sure, you
may, "if it's not defeated by price rings", as Douglas was musing in the
'Warning Democracy' passage, be able to lower consumer prices this way.
But it doesn't really do anything towards preventing an unwarranted increase
in capital spending. We'd still likely have new plant being constructed
while current plant is underutilized or has to be scrapped as
'uncompetitive' (financially) long before it's (physically) worn out or even
obsolete. We're back to 'making work'.
I agree with you that if it's in prices it has to be repaid. But the
important point, I think, is that if the producer is making something that's
truly needed or wanted by 'consumers', then through the credit being paid to
CONSUMERS first, debt-free, (the ND and/or CPD), in the economy as a whole
it's then far more capable of being totally repaid. But CONSUMERS, through
individual choice taken collectively, are able to determine just what should
be produced and what should not.
(Peter continues:-) If credits to producers is but one of four options ( as
Douglas said there
were) to eliminate this 'writing down' out of prices. Lets try and think
of
what the other three might be. Then lets discuss which option could be the
best today. There doesnt have to be winners and lossers here.
(Joe replies:-) I agree.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] douglas-alberta-1934
>
>
> > Bill, this 'writing-up' and 'writing-down' would be a 'macro-economic'
> > crediting or debiting of a National Balance Sheet, or some such similar
> > 'national' account?
> >
> > And then distributed to 'CONSUMERS' by one means or another to credit
THEM
> > with the overall increase in capital appreciation that's taken place in
> > excess of the overall capital depreciation they're going to be charged
in
> > prices over some given period?
> >
> > Not, as has been supposed sometimes, (which it would be easy to suppose,
> > the
> > way it's been put), a 'credit' paid directly to any individual producer
as
> > an 'individual' producer? In other words, we're still dealing with
what
> > takes place in the WHOLE economy, not the payment of some 'credit' by
the
> > relevant 'Authority' directly to some individual producer who may have
> > just
> > put up a new plant? What he receives still has to come through the
price
> > system from the sale of his product?
> >
> > Undoubtedly that producer's efforts DO have an effect on the WHOLE
> > economy,
> > but the increase or maintenance of the rate of in profit he, or any
other
> > producers may receive comes about through CONSUMERS being credited with
> > enough money to to maintain that rate of profit through their spending?
> >
> > Joe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "MODERATOR" <socredus@yahoo.com>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 12:57 AM
> > Subject: [socialcredit] douglas-alberta-1934
> >
> >
> >> I attach in PDF format what I believe to be a accurate
> >> version of Douglas' 1934 testimony to the Alberta
> >> Legislature.
> >>
> >> I just noticed this from page 89 of the attached PDF:-
> >>
> >> "Suppose you issue $10,000 worth of stock, and you put
> >> up a factory. The physical process of depreciation
> >> takes place; it is always insisted upon by your
> >> auditor, and your figures are written down. You ought
> >> to have a transfer back into purchasing power of those
> >> figures which are written down, because you have used
> >> your plant for the production of something which is
> >> sold to the public. Now you can write down those
> >> physical assets, and apply some of the issues of the
> >> money to re-transferring into cash the physical assets
> >> which are written down, and that disposes of quite a
> >> considerable amount of the money which is issued."
> >> -
> >>
> >> I wish that the Committee had cross-examined him on
> >> this a bit to clarify what he was saying.
> >>
> >> Compare it to this from Warning Democracy, which we
> >> were discussing a couple of weeks ago:-
> >>
> >> "...one of the first requisites is to deal with the
> >> immobilisation of bank credits in fixed assets.
> >>
> >> "There are many ways of doing this, and perhaps one of
> >> the simplest would be the automatic writing up of the
> >> bank credits of any limited company to correspond with
> >> the increase in its fixed assets, as certified by a
> >> chartered accountant during a given accounting period.
> >>
> >>
> >> "The effect of this, so long as the result was not
> >> defeated by rings of prices, would be to lower prices
> >> by enabling competitive concerns to get a proportion
> >> of their overhead charges out of prices charged for
> >> their product..."
> >> -
> >>
> >> The thrust of all of Douglas' financial
> >> recommendations was to increase the rate of profit by
> >> what I have characterized as macroeconomic accounting
> >> adjustments, thereby increasing the quantity and scope
> >> of what is produced from productive capacity.
> >>
> >> I invite discussion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> > ________
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who
> > knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> >> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
> >>
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> >>
> >
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>
>
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