| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] U.S. Economics Test | | Date: | Sunday, August 12, 2007 14:42:41 (-0600) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <hattersleyjm @.........com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 4961 (written by william_b_ryan) |
Isn't this rather a good opportunity to confront Mark Schneider over the
erroneous nature of his test? No wonder the students can't make sense of it!
Martin Hattersley
5929 - 189 St., NW
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
(780)483-5442
e-mail:jmartinh@shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] U.S. Economics Test
> Yes, dumbing down. But I really had thought that it
> was generally accepted now by economists that loans
> create deposits, rather than deposits funding loans.
> Then I was really astounded when I saw the report the
> other day in The New York Times of the 12th grade
> economics assessment. It's not just that it is a
> single stupid question from the test, but one that's
> trumpeted by the promoters themselves as being
> representative of the test.
>
> Attached is a short excerpt from Mark Scneider,
> Commissioner--National Center for Education Statistics
> of the U.S. Department of Education, at Wednesday's
> presentation and press conference. The full audio and
> video is at http://www.c-span.org
>
> "The Nation's Report Card: Economics 2006" was
> released by the National Assessment Governing Board.
> The report contains achievement results for U.S.
> 12th-grade students on the 2006 National Assessment of
> Educational Progress (NAEP). The report includes data
> on economics course-taking and provides examples of
> what students know-and don't know-about national and
> international economic issues and personal finance
> topics.
> 8/8/2007: WASHINGTON, DC: 53 min.
> ----------------------
>
> The following is from Douglas's 1923 testimony in
> Ottawa. The page numbers refer to the PDF that I
> posted on Friday.
> -
>
>>>>page 33
> Douglas: The deposits of money in a bank are only a
> smoke screen for the major operations of the bank. If
> the public could not see that a certain amount of
> money went into a bank, they would not believe that it
> was possible for any considerable amount of money to
> come out of it. But the bank's business is a loss in
> respect of its deposits, and only part of it in
> respect of its disbursements. It has to carry on a
> certain amount of business at a loss in order to form
> a screen for the very much larger amount of business
> which it carries on at a profit, but it would be
> perfectly possible for a modern banking business to
> function exactly as it does at the present time
> without any deposits.
>
> By Mr. McMaster: Q. So they pay three per cent and
> invite the public to deposit by advertisements just to
> get a smoke screen?-
>
> A. I should say that.
>
>>>>page 34
> Q. Tell us how a bank could function without deposits.
> It has a small nominal capital, but it has no
> deposits. Will you just carry us through the stage of
> that operation?-
>
> A. It is really very simple. If a bank could issue a
> draft for any amount, a banker's draft for any amount,
> which would always be accepted as money and would
> never be asked for in the form of legal tender-
>
> Q. Suppose I were going to London and I wanted to buy
> a draft on London, would I never be asked for the
> money?-
>
> A. They probably would ask, but I say under certain
> circumstances.
>
> Q. If a bank did not have any deposits or any capital,
> how would they pay that? How would they pay? For
> instance the London and Midland Bank, say.-
>
> A. The only liability of a bank is to pay legal tender
> on demand. If there is no demand for legal tender, if
> its draft is always accepted without changing it into
> anything else, or if it were in the position of being
> able to issue $1 cheques, which passed from hand to
> hand as $1 notes, then just so long as that
> hypothetical state of mind exists, I mean it could not
> exist, because it is not practical, but just so long
> as it existed, that bank could carry on a flourishing
> business without having any deposits. In other words,
> it would be creating its own currency and these would
> be claims on goods. It would not be paying these
> claims on goods.
>
> Q. When you say a bank could carry on business without
> any deposits and practically without any capital, is
> not that putting it in a pretty extreme way?-
>
>>>>page 35
> A. I do not say that it could in the sense that it is
> a practical proposition, but I say that it might.
>
> Q. If everybody believed it could be done?-
>
> A. If everybody believed it could be done.
>
> Q. That is to say, banking might be based on a state
> of mind, and not on deposits?-
>
> A. I should say banking is based on a state of mind at
> the present time.
>
> By Mr. Stevens: Q. Do you think this case that you
> mention is within the realm of possibility in
> practical business?-
>
> A. All I can say is that the British clearinghouse
> deposits during 1922 showed that only 1.7 of 100 per
> cent of the business of the country was done in legal
> tender.
>
> By Mr. Spencer: Q. I would like to ask Major Douglas
> if he considers that all loans create deposits to an
> equal amount?-
>
> A. I do.
>
>>>>page 38
> ...By Mr. Irvine: Q. On page 43 [of the Bankers'
> Association pamphlet they were discussing], arguing on
> that, that the farmer should not be allowed to have
> any more credit because "the money they lend (that is,
> the bankers) represents customers' deposits, which
> they must be ready at all times to pay on demand."
> Have you any remarks to make in that regard?-
>
>>>>page 39
> A. Yes. I think that that is yet another instance of
> the extraordinarily careful wording of this pamphlet.
> You see that that paragraph says-I have it written
> down here, "the money they lend represents customers'
> deposits." Represents customers' deposits. You will
> notice that it does not say that the banks lend
> customers' deposits. That is a very, very tricky and
> careful difference. It states carefully-loans and
> deposits are a reflection of it-but it does not state
> what is the fact, that the loan comes first, that it
> is the loan which creates the deposit, not the deposit
> which enables them to make the loan.
> -
>
>
> --- Richard Cook <rickycook21@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's part of the official dumbing-down educational
>> policy. Check out the
>> movie "Idiocracy."
>>
>>
>> >From: "Keith Wilde" <keithwilde@sympatico.ca>
>> >Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] U.S. Economics Test
>> >Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 22:49:09 -0400
>> >
>> >The sinister aspect is the possibility that these
>> high school teachers do
>> >believe that one of these is the right answer. That
>> means someone told them
>> >so. Who?
>> >
>> >----- Original Message ----- From: "John Hermann"
>> <hermann@picknowl.com.au>
>> >To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:17 PM
>> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit] U.S. Economics Test
>> >
>> >
>> >>The "right" answer Keith, is that none of the
>> >>options provided is correct.
>> >>John Hermann
>> >>
>> >>>KEITH WILDE wrote:
>> >>>Are you going to keep us guessing about the
>> "right" answer?
>> >>>Keith
>> >>>>From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>> >>>>Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>>>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> >>>>Subject: [socialcredit] U.S. Economics Test
>> >>>>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 08:17:59 -0700 (PDT) The
>> graphic accompanying the
>> >>>>article in The New York
>> >>>>Times, which I've attached below, contains this
>> sample
>> >>>>question: "What happens to most of the money
>> deposited in
>> >>>>checking accounts at a commercial bank? "A. It
>> is used to pay the bank's
>> >>>>expenses. "B. It is loaned to other bank
>> customers. "C. It is kept in
>> >>>>the bank's vault until depositors
>> >>>>withdraw the funds. "D. It is paid to owners of
>> the bank as return on
>> >>>>their investment."
>
>
>
>
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