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Message 5053
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| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] question | | Date: | Monday, October 8, 2007 15:08:11 (-0400) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
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(Peter wrote:-) . I never knew about the German navy in China. Western
Samoa was given as a trust territory for NZ to administer after the
fall of Germany. The US has Eastern Samoa. Western Samoa is independant
now but have NZ citizenship as of right.
(Joe replies:-) Pre-WW I China had been carved up into various 'spheres of
influence' by the European powers of the day, and the USA and Japan. The
Germans were based on the T'sientsin Peninusula, (spelling of that might
differ in some records).
Germany was late getting into the 'colonial' game. The best pickings were
gone by the time they got going. I think Tanganyika (Tanzania, now), was
the only thing they had other than their Chinese concession that was really
of any value.
They also had what's now Namibia, some possessions in West Africa, and Papua
New Guinea, as well as what you mentioned. Samoa and some smaller islands
in the south Pacific. Trying to dislodge them from Tanganyika took the
British quite a while.
Luckner was the German naval commander that had such success in the Indian
Ocean, in between India and Africa. A very chivalrous sort, he made sure
all the crews and passengers were safely off any Allied ship he sank before
sending it to the bottom. Hardly the archtypical, ruthlessly barbaric,
baby-bayonetting Hun of Allied propaganda. He eventually made it back to
Germany.
Their main Pacific naval force was commanded by Admiral Graf Spee. He gave
the Royal Navy quite a drubbing off the coast of Chile. He met his end in a
naval battle off the Falklands after rounding the Cape.
Ironically, not that far from where the German battleship named after him,
the "Graf Spee" opened her seacocks and scuttled early in World War Two.
Rather than fight it out with the British Commonwealth warships that had her
cornered.
The other irony in all of this was the Japanese coming to the defence of
British Columbia. Where, seven years earlier, a mob led by goons from the
racist Asiatic-Exclusion League had gone on a rampage against the Chinese
and Japanese that had settled here. The spillover of the American financial
panic of 1907, and a genuine 'white' fear that more 'Asiatics' would be
brought in to displace higher waged 'white' workers with lower waged
'yellow' ones was exploited by this group, who wanted to expell all
non-whites from the Province.
They smashed up businesses in Vancouver's Chinatown and Japtown areas. The
Chinese 'turned the other cheek', so to speak. But the Japanese, when
attacked, gave as good as they got. Or maybe better.
It must have been a bit hard to swallow for some of these people that, seven
years later, all that was keeping them from a possible attack by their
fellow "white Europeans" was a Navy of little "yellow Asiatics". (And, of
course, our two subs, one obsolete cruiser, and a couple of 'pop-guns' on
shore.)
(Peter continues:-) Douglas says in the same section ("The Big Idea" ~
Joe) that it was the US which pressured Britiain to end the Treaty with
Japan in 1922. A couple of pages earlier he mentioned that
the B of E was put under a US advisor and appears to be 1917. I suspect
that this coinsides with the US agreeing to come into the war after the
same
international banker deligation from Britian visited the US which would be
the fulfillment of the promise made to Lloyd George the new Prime Minister
in 1916, whom just happned to be also the British Zionist organisations
solicitor, that if he should spare the unsparable troops from the war
against Germany and do service breaking up the Ottoman Empire to free
Palestine for- you can guess, they will be repaid by US assistence in the
war.
(Joe replies:-) I have yet to see a complete accounting anywhere else of
the things Douglas mentions in that whole section, from the point where he's
quoting the British Ambassador to Washington, Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, right
through to the visit of Rufus Isaacs, and the change of sympathy of the
German-American-Jewish financiers of Wall Street.
We know that Douglas must have been very well-connected. He seemed to move
in circles which definitely included the 'movers and shakers' of the post-WW
I era. And he certainly must've had many private conversations with these
people, in which they would likely be telling him many things which might
have bearing on what he would be telling them.
I think it's highly unlikely that what he wrote in that section would all be
'made-up', or the product of an 'anti-semitic' imagination. Yet that whole
period, and beyond, seems to have an aura of mystery about it. There are
things that happened that do not seem to make sense. They may be
co-incidences, but it still seems strange that there are so many
co-incidences. It's definitely an area in which there should be further
research done, and especially if the passage of time has now unsealed much
of what might have earlier been 'classified' information.
(Peter continues:-) . The Americans need to look very closely
at the series of building up war machines to be used and then destroyed
because there have been very unhealthy signs appearing since the year 2000.
(Joe replies:-) That certainly wouldn't hurt, though I doubt it would
really change anything. The other night there was a documentary on the
American PBS TV station we receive from Seattle about the growing political
influence of those Americans who have convinced themselves that
modern-Israel is composed of "God's Chosen People". And that America and
Americans must do its bidding to achieve eternal Salvation.
I believe those currently following this idea was stated to be something
like 60 million people. About one fifth of the American population, in
other words. We could probably expect a similar ratio here in Canada,
though hopefully it would be less.
These are certainly not 'evil' people, even though they are, in my opinion,
hopelessly deluded. The problem is not so much with their belief, and those
who take great pains to re-inforce its veracity, but that they are, at
present, certainly a very pliable 'putty' in the hands of 'evil' people.
And therein lies great danger for America and the world.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > (Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> > credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >
> > (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret lending
> > to
> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed considerable
> > international credit to go in the short time that it did from feudal
state
> > to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
well-equipped
> > military, I would think.
> >
> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have
as
> > an
> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian military expansionism in
the
> > Far East and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
War
> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.) Indirectly,
the
> > weakening of Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
> > towards
> > British interests in India and Persia (Iran).
> >
> > After the outbreak of war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> > wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
established
> > in
> > China. The Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
including
> > a
> > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
Kaiser
> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most important
> > overseas possession. (Quite likely not so much for what 'goods' China
> > could
> > provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> > German manufactured goods.)
> >
> > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
> > menace
> > to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
> > facilities
> > in the entire Pacific were then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> > B.C.
> > Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the
world
> > that could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth ~
> > and
> > did, during WW II), would have been quite a military accomplishment.
> >
> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had but one
> > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility, and the entire BC coast.
> > Fortunately, for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
ships
> > to
> > take up station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
> > the
> > BC Government secretly purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
Navy
> > from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
> > circumvented
> > when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of public
> > support. )
> >
> > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German Pacific
> > fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
it
> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some of
> > those German sailors were later captured, and interned as POWs in New
> > Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back to
> > Germany.
> >
> > The main German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> > annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
of
> > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the Falklands, and
> > removed that menace entirely.
> >
> > I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
> > Mediterranean,
> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
threat
> > for some time.
> >
> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
> > Royal
> > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for his
> > country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
> > non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the face
> > when their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
> >
> > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as Douglas indicated
> > in
> > "The Big Idea", that the influence of 'International' Finance over
> > post-war British policy had a hand in that.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >
> >
> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege of character
and
> >> the prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
of
> > the
> >> latter at the expense of the former.
> >> In the early part of the century, I am not sure if it was pre-world war
> > one
> >> or immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
of
> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable that
> >> in
> >> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions and
> > thus
> >> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
> >> would
> >> advise.
> >> This circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go to
> > war
> >> upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >>
> >>
> >> > "....but gave evidence at
> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> > Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >>
> >> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >
> >> > (Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
better.
> >> >
> >> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least not
> >> > if
> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of Douglas's presentation
of
> >> > evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
> > Committees
> >> > he
> >> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan
one
> >> > we've
> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.
> >> >
> >> > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
World
> >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe it
> >> > would
> >> > have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
"officials"
> > of
> >> > that country's Finance Ministry.
> >> >
> >> > And, over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
of
> >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >> >
> >> > I think this would most likely have been the nature of any
"inquiries"
> > he
> >> > received from "officials" during his visit to Australia also.
> >> > Doubtless
> >> > there must have been "countless" conversations where various
> >> > "officials"
> >> > in
> >> > various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
> >> > conversation with him over the years.
> >> >
> >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his evidence before
the
> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the
Japanese
> >> > using
> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
disposed
> >> > towards the Japanese.
> >> >
> >> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The Big
> >> > Idea",
> >> > where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
British
> >> > ally
> >> > throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a "loss
of
> >> > face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >
> >> > We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his ideas,
as
> >> > the
> >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on
that?
> >> >
> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national credit
also
> >> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding the
relationship
> >> > between the State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >> > era?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >> > Subject: [socialcredit] question
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >> >> Grip of Death*:
> >> >>
> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
> >> >> day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
> >> >> only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >> >> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >>
> >> >> Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> >> evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> >> > ________
> >> >> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >> >> today!
> >> > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
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> >> >> at
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
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> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
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> >
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>
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