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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] question
Date:Sunday, October 7, 2007  22:43:43 (-0400)
From:Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
In reply to:Message 5045 (written by Wallace Klinck)

Hi Wally,
 
Many thanks for your elaborations on my reply to Bill's question.  
 
In the transcript of evidence of Douglas's testimony before the MacMillan Commission the following exchange appears.
 
Brand:- "Supposing I were a steel producer, and had a factory which was only producing to the extent of 50 per cent and I could not find buyers, and supposing you were Dictator, what would you do to help me?"
 
Douglas:-"I should not do anything to help you individually.  I should make such arrangements that the price level of steel would be such that you could either sell in this country or be in a very strong position to compete abroad."
 
Brand:-" You mean you would enable me to make a profit somehow, although I had to sell my product at less than it cost me?"
 
Douglas:-" Yes."
 
'Steel' itself is not a 'consumer good', though a great many 'consumables' are made from steel. 
 
 So I don't think it's hard to imagine how, through the CPD or a similar mechanism, effective demand for all consumables, including ones made from steel, might be increased  in the home market.
 
  And the steel mill might very soon find itself operating at more than 50% capacity again. 
 
Now if that were the case, and "unit cost is a function of volume", would that then be what Douglas means when he says "be in a very strong position to compete abroad"?  Or is there possibly some other mechanism that Douglas had in mind that would put the steel industry in such a position? 
 
Sincerely,
Joe 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 5:15 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question

I thank Joe for his comments which are well-stated.  The Japanese appeared aggressively to enter the competition for foreign markets by utilizing large internal debt, which it seemed was not intended to be repaid, to stimulate production and to subsidize exports in an manner which was considered "unfair" by foreign competitors.  No doubt, this intense promotion of exports was, as always, a significant causative factor contributing to war and to Japan's involvement as an "enemy" in World War Two.  These considerations appear to explain Douglas's reported position that the Japanese had pirated and inverted the policy of Social Credit.  It had been reported that Douglas's ideas had gained some currency in Japan.  Unfortunately, the Japanese government "adapted", or distorted, them to achieve a state policy of promoting production ("work") and increasing export of wealth from the nation--both policies being contrary to genuine Social Credit. This, again, demonstrates that "monetary reform" improperly conceived and applied can be used for the centralization of power--quite contrary to Christian philosophy and to the Social Credit policy of distributing power to individual citizens.

The term "official" may or may not refer to governmental bodies, per se.  During his world tour of 1934 Douglas addressed crowds of thousands of people in Australia (e.g., in Perth, Melbourne and in Sydney, attended there by some 12,000) who had in some cases been allowed time off work to attend his addresses and he received civic welcomes with various dignitaries attending.  The Sydney Bulletin  reported that Douglas "...was greeted with civic receptions, Parliamentary dinners, processions of motor cars and about half an acre of bagpipes...." (See John W. Hughes, Major Douglas:  The Policy of a Philosophy.)  The clergy often responded favourably to Social Credit.  The National Bank of Australia issued an "official" circular attacking Social Credit and cited the views of  the economist Hartley Withers, who had in an article stated that if Douglas's views were correct the surplus accumulated goods of the world would be high enough to dwarf Mount Everest--a statement which revealed a complete misunderstanding of Social Credit.  Professor D. B. Copeland, Dean of the Faculty of Commerce at Melbourne University and advisor to the Commonwealth Bank, issued a pamphlet ("Facts and Fallacies of Douglas Social Credit.") attacking Social Credit;  the Bank of New South Wales distributed this and an anti-Douglas book by a university tutor (a Mr. McConnell) as well as the Withers publication.  So, Douglas certainly received plenty of "official" recognition during his tour of Australia.  In New Zealand, he was given enthusiastic civic receptions and, as has been previously documented, he gave evidence to a special sitting of the New Zealand Parliamentary Monetary Committee.

Sincerely
Wally


On 6-Oct-07, at 5:23 PM, Joe Thomson wrote:

"....but gave evidence at
 countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
 Canada, New Zealand and Australia."

(Bill Ryan:-)  Question:  What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
 evidence to in Japan and Australia?

(Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit better.

The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless".  At least not if
we're using "official enquiries" in terms of  Douglas's presentation of
evidence under that designation  as it applies to  the various Committees he
appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan one we've
been discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.

In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the World
Engineering Conference  Douglas was attending in Tokyo,  I believe it would
have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by "officials" of
that country's Finance Ministry.

 And,  over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many of
their "inquiries" as to his ideas.

I think this would most likely have been the nature of any "inquiries" he
received from "officials" during his visit to Australia also.  Doubtless
there must have been "countless" conversations where various "officials" in
various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
conversation with him over the years.

It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his evidence before the
Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the Japanese using
"the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably disposed
towards the Japanese.

This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The Big Idea",
where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective British ally
throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a "loss of
face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.

We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his ideas, as the
Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII years.  Any comments on that?

Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national credit also
implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding the relationship
between the State and the individual  as regards the  Japan of that era?


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] question


The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
this  statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
Grip of Death*:

"...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
day, and a major figure on the world stage.  He not
only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
Canada, New Zealand and Australia."

Question:  What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
evidence to in Japan and Australia?



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