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Howdy John,
The use of theorising about what is theory holds less
credibility than a no theory persective from several publications
including Douglas.
Since you have raised the issue of lack of
references/documentation how come you havent substantiated the 'theory' claim by
quoting something that confirms there was no campaign of any sort in
Palestine?
The Gillipoli campaign in itself is no evidence
against a Palestine campaign, nor the general state of the Ottoman
Empire or the Arab-British relations after the First World War.
The Commonwealth troops based in Egypt were sent to
Gallipoli, "an expedition involving disaster and forcing the campaign back to
the release of Jerusalem from Turkish domination." ( Major W.R. Mackesy-
"What of the Future?")
That was the Palestinian campaign and General
Allanby walked his horse into Jerusalem on the 11th of
December 1917 out of reverence to God of the Bible. The RAF flew over the
city. What would you suppose would be a minimum troop strength warranting
a General?
We all know of the letter from Lord Balfour ( the
famous 'declaration') to Mr Rothschild ( without Parliamentary debate)
effectively assuring him he would get his Zionist state so why theorise
what I have repeated.
The Gallipoli campaign failed largely due to the RN
failure to arrive prior and soften up the Turkish defences. The Lord of
the Admiralty was Churchill. Churchill family were Zionsist, both he and
his father before him. These are facts. Here now is
a theory- that if the campaign was successful in securing the heights
for a further campaign to take Constantinople then the time likely
involved while the Turkish order in the Middle East was
collapsing could have meant the Arabs would have got control of Jerusalem-
no British mandate and the Balfour Declaration a mere piece of
paper.
If one reflects on the last 100 years or so with all the
wars and upheavals and types of regimes and global dialectic tensions etc,
the meaning of the Balfour Declaration appears to have not only been the
sole survivor but has become centre stage in todays world and is close to
another world war. So there is no question of the powerful long-term
interests that surround this entity to be so quick to cry 'theory'.
Cheers,
Peter
----- Original Miessage -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:21
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
question
Good theory, Peter, but the Ottoman Empire was well on the way
to being broken up long before the Americans came into the war. The
Turks fought bravely at Gallipoli, on home ground, but were not so interested
in dying for Sinai and Palestine. Records from my father's Regiment, the
Wellington Mounted Rifles, show that the Aussies, Kiwis and some English
regiments took manned fortresses there (Gaza etc.) consistently with less
manpower than held them, compared with the normal military doctrine on needing
about 2.5 to one. Our infantry and some of the mounteds, I think also
the Sikh and Gurkha regiments and the French light artillery
were switched to France after Gallipoli. I think the fact that New
Zealanders walk a foot above ground level in the eyes of many Turks stems as
much from this vastly more sporting campaign than the butchery of
Gallipoli.
I don't think any fresh British troops were sent to the Middle
East, and the ones there were far from first class units.
Itwas
post war that the British reneged on all the promises made to the Arabs,
particularly by Lawrence.
Regards. John R.
> From: cymric@xtra.co.nz
> To:
socialcredit@elistas.com
> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 21:18:48 +1300
>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
> Thanks Joe, quite
interesting. I never knew about the German navy in China.
> Western
Samoa was given as a trust territory for NZ to administer after the
>
fall of Germany. The US has Eastern Samoa. Western Samoa is independant
> now but have NZ citizenship as of right.
>
> Douglas
does say in the same chapter that the international financiers made
>
Japan a first class power. I recall from elsewhere he mentioned the
>
secretive lending and come across it in someone elses book as well. Douglas
> says in the same section that it was the US which pressured Britiain
to end
> the Treaty with Japan in 1922. A couple of pages earlier he
mentioned that
> the B of E was put under a US advisor and appears to
be 1917. I suspect
> that this coinsides with the US agreeing to come
into the war after the same
> international banker deligation from
Britian visited the US which would be
> the fulfillment of the promise
made to Lloyd George the new Prime Minister
> in 1916, whom just
happned to be also the British Zionist organisations
> solicitor, that
if he should spare the unsparable troops from the war
> against Germany
and do service breaking up the Ottoman Empire to free
> Palestine for-
you can guess, they will be repaid by US assistence in the
>
war.
> Running parallel with the build up of Japan in the East was the
destruction
> of British industrial power through the twenties, under
the US advisor,
> using deflationary policy while the US was being
built up by inflationary
> policy by the better half to replace Britain
as the leading world power.
> The Third Reich was next built up. The
Americans need to look very closely
> at the series of building up war
machines to be used and then destroyed
> because there have been very
unhealthy signs appearing since the year 2000.
> Peter
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:18
AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
(Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
>
> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >
> >
(Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret lending
> > to
> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must
have needed considerable
> > international credit to go in the short
time that it did from feudal state
> > to a modern, industrialised
country complete with a modern, well-equipped
> > military, I would
think.
> >
> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was quite
useful to Britain to have as
> > an
> > ally. The Japanese
directly checked Russian military expansionism in the
> > Far East
and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese War
> >
in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.) Indirectly,
the
> > weakening of Russia would have removed a threat from that
direction
> > towards
> > British interests in India and
Persia (Iran).
> >
> > After the outbreak of war in Europe
in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> > wrest control over the 'sphere
of influence' that Germany had established
> > in
> >
China. The Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there, including
> > a
> > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of
the importance the Kaiser
> > attached to what he reportedly stated
to be Germany's most important
> > overseas possession. (Quite likely
not so much for what 'goods' China
> > could
> > provide
Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> >
German manufactured goods.)
> >
> > This German Pacific
Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
> > menace
>
> to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
>
> facilities
> > in the entire Pacific were then located at
Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> > B.C.
> > Destruction of
the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the world
> > that
could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth ~
>
> and
> > did, during WW II), would have been quite a military
accomplishment.
> >
> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the
Royal Canadian Navy had but one
> > obsolete cruiser to defend this
facility, and the entire BC coast.
> > Fortunately, for us, the
Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern ships
> > to
> >
take up station and defend against what was feared would be an
imminent
> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully
inadequate defences,
> > the
> > BC Government secretly
purchased two submarines made for the Chilean Navy
> > from their US
builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
> > Constitutional
powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
> >
circumvented
> > when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear
indication of public
> > support. )
> >
> > As it
turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German Pacific
> >
fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
it
> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I
believe some of
> > those German sailors were later captured, and
interned as POWs in New
> > Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and
somehow making it back to
> > Germany.
> >
> > The
main German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> >
annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
of
> > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the
Falklands, and
> > removed that menace entirely.
> >
>
> I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
>
> Mediterranean,
> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy
posed a enemy submarine threat
> > for some time.
>
>
> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George
V at the
> > Royal
> > Family's Balmoral estate, an
indication of British appreciation for his
> > country's war effort,
and that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
> > non-white world
power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the face
> > when
their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
>
>
> > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as
Douglas indicated
> > in
> > "The Big Idea", that the
influence of 'International' Finance over
> > post-war British policy
had a hand in that.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original
Message -----
> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October
07, 2007 3:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between
the prestege of character and
> >> the prestege of money power.
Both Japan and Britain were the victims of
> > the
> >>
latter at the expense of the former.
> >> In the early part of the
century, I am not sure if it was pre-world war
> > one
>
>> or immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
of
> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be
inevitable that
> >> in
> >> the thirties Japan would
have been subject to the banks directions and
> > thus
>
>> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
> >> would
> >> advise.
> >> This
circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go to
>
> war
> >> upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her
oil supplies.
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> -----
Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07,
2007 12:23 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>>
> >>
> >> > "....but gave evidence
at
> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain,
Japan,
> >> > Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
>
>> >>
> >> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official
inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> > evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> >> >
> >> > (Joe replies:-) I think
Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit better.
> >> >
>
>> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least
not
> >> > if
> >> > we're using "official
enquiries" in terms of Douglas's presentation of
> >> >
evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
> >
Committees
> >> > he
> >> > appeared before in
Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan one
> >> >
we've
> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by
my count.
> >> >
> >> > In Japan in 1929,
following the presentation of his paper at the World
> >> >
Engineering Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe it
>
>> > would
> >> > have been more correct to state that
he was interviewed by "officials"
> > of
> >> > that
country's Finance Ministry.
> >> >
> >> > And,
over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many of
>
>> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >> >
>
>> > I think this would most likely have been the nature of any
"inquiries"
> > he
> >> > received from "officials"
during his visit to Australia also.
> >> > Doubtless
>
>> > there must have been "countless" conversations where various
> >> > "officials"
> >> > in
> >>
> various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
>
>> > conversation with him over the years.
> >>
>
> >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his
evidence before the
> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in
1934 where he speaks of the Japanese
> >> > using
>
>> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
disposed
> >> > towards the Japanese.
> >>
>
> >> > This is also touched on in his more 'political'
writings in "The Big
> >> > Idea",
> >> > where
he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective British
>
>> > ally
> >> > throughout World War One from start
to end, was subjected to a "loss of
> >> > face" when their
alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >
>
>> > We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his
ideas, as
> >> > the
> >> > Japanese applied
them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on that?
> >>
>
> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on
national credit also
> >> > implies the "the reverse" of his
philosophy regarding the relationship
> >> > between the State
and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >> >
era?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----
Original Message -----
> >> > From:
<william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> >> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, October
06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >> > Subject: [socialcredit]
question
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >>
this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >> >>
Grip of Death*:
> >> >>
> >> >>
"...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
> >> >>
day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
> >> >>
only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >>
>> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
>
>> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >>
>>
> >> >> Question: What "official inquiries" did
Douglas give
> >> >> evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> >> >>
> >> >>
>
>> >>
> >> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
>
>> > ________
> >> >> Shape Yahoo! in your own
image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >> >>
today!
> >> >
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >>
>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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