| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] question | | Date: | Tuesday, October 9, 2007 08:44:43 (-0400) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5056 (written by William Hugh McGunnigle) |
Many thanks, Bill (McGonnigle), for the further information. I incorrectly
stated that the part of the German Pacific Fleet (the "Emden") that went
into the Indian Ocean was commanded by Luckner. That should have been, as
you stated, Captain Muller.
Luckner, the "Sea Devil", commanded a merchant raider not attached to the
German Pacific fleet. I believe it was he who was captured and interred in
NZ, though, and later escaped.
In regards to the "Lusitania", it was sunk in 1915, and though it stirred up
great animosity in the USA at the time, the war against Germany was not
entered until 1917, after the Kaiser announced he would use unrestricted
submarine warfare in violation of his committment after the "Lusitania"
sinking not to do so. That and the publication of the "Zimmerman Note", a
diplomatic telegram from Germany's Foreign Minister to the German Ambassador
in Mexico intercepted and decoded by British Intelligence and passed on to
the US Government was said to have been the deciding factor.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> Amplifying Joe's statement on the German colonies in the Pacific.
> The Asiatic fleet consisted of the Heavy cruisers Scharhorst and
> Gneisenau, and the Light cruisers Dresden Liepzig, Nurenberg and Emden.
The
> Admiral Von Spee commanding that fleet did not attack Canada for several
> reasons. These were:-
> The presence of a powerful Australian fleet including the Battlecruiser
> Australia that would have been a formidable and highly dangerous adversary
> even for his fleet.
> The ambivalent attitude of the USA who would not permit coaling of his
> fleet in US ports and bases.
> The high possibility of the Japanese fleet blockading his fleet in
> TingTsao (The German Base in China) to prevent interuption of Japanese
trade
> with Australia, NZ, the Dutch East Indies and the French colonies in
> IndoChina, even if Japan did not directly intervene in the war.
> The problem of coal supplies for his fleet considering that nmost of the
> coaling depots in the Pacific were controlled by British or American
> interests. Only Samoa (a German colony) offered coaling facilities, and it
> was certain that this would be attacked and taken by the avaiable British
> and colonial forces at the earliest opportunity.
> These considerations wieghed heavily on the mind of Admiral Von Spee,
and
> he decided to head south via Samoa to go around Cape Horn, and break
through
> the Atlantic Blockade using coal supplies shipped to him by the various
> German embassies in the Neutral countries of South America. He came to
grief
> when he decided to attack the radio station on the Faukland Islands
unaware
> that Vice Admiral Sturdee with his squadron consisting of the battle
> cruisers Invincible and Inflexible together with 4 light cruises, a county
> class heavy cruiser and the old battleship Canopus, were in harbour. The
end
> result of this confronmtation is well known to any naval historian.
> The Only ship that did not follow this route was the Emden under the
> command of Captain Muller. His commerce raiding expedition in the Indian
> Ocean was a classic. He obtained his coal from the ships he captured and
> then sank. His mistake was to attempt to destroy the radio station on
Cocos
> Island. This station was able to send a distress call picked up by the
> protected cruiser HMAS Sydney. The arrival of the Sydney ended the Emdens
> raiding because this Australian cruiser outgunned the Emden and was able
to
> smash the German raider with little damage to herself. The Emden was
> scuttled on a reef, and her crew interned for the rest of the war.
> regards
> Bill McGunnigle
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > (Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> > credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >
> > (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret lending
> > to
> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed considerable
> > international credit to go in the short time that it did from feudal
state
> > to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
well-equipped
> > military, I would think.
> >
> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have
as
> > an
> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian military expansionism in
the
> > Far East and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
War
> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.) Indirectly,
the
> > weakening of Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
> > towards
> > British interests in India and Persia (Iran).
> >
> > After the outbreak of war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> > wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
established
> > in
> > China. The Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
including
> > a
> > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
Kaiser
> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most important
> > overseas possession. (Quite likely not so much for what 'goods' China
> > could
> > provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> > German manufactured goods.)
> >
> > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
> > menace
> > to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
> > facilities
> > in the entire Pacific were then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> > B.C.
> > Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the
world
> > that could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth ~
> > and
> > did, during WW II), would have been quite a military accomplishment.
> >
> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had but one
> > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility, and the entire BC coast.
> > Fortunately, for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
ships
> > to
> > take up station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
> > the
> > BC Government secretly purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
Navy
> > from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
> > circumvented
> > when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of public
> > support. )
> >
> > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German Pacific
> > fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
it
> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some of
> > those German sailors were later captured, and interned as POWs in New
> > Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back to
> > Germany.
> >
> > The main German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> > annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
of
> > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the Falklands, and
> > removed that menace entirely.
> >
> > I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
> > Mediterranean,
> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
threat
> > for some time.
> >
> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
> > Royal
> > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for his
> > country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
> > non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the face
> > when their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
> >
> > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as Douglas indicated
> > in
> > "The Big Idea", that the influence of 'International' Finance over
> > post-war British policy had a hand in that.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >
> >
> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege of character
and
> >> the prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
of
> > the
> >> latter at the expense of the former.
> >> In the early part of the century, I am not sure if it was pre-world war
> > one
> >> or immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
of
> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable that
> >> in
> >> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions and
> > thus
> >> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
> >> would
> >> advise.
> >> This circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go to
> > war
> >> upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >>
> >>
> >> > "....but gave evidence at
> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> > Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >>
> >> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >
> >> > (Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
better.
> >> >
> >> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least not
> >> > if
> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of Douglas's presentation
of
> >> > evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
> > Committees
> >> > he
> >> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan
one
> >> > we've
> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.
> >> >
> >> > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
World
> >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe it
> >> > would
> >> > have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
"officials"
> > of
> >> > that country's Finance Ministry.
> >> >
> >> > And, over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
of
> >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >> >
> >> > I think this would most likely have been the nature of any
"inquiries"
> > he
> >> > received from "officials" during his visit to Australia also.
> >> > Doubtless
> >> > there must have been "countless" conversations where various
> >> > "officials"
> >> > in
> >> > various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
> >> > conversation with him over the years.
> >> >
> >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his evidence before
the
> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the
Japanese
> >> > using
> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
disposed
> >> > towards the Japanese.
> >> >
> >> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The Big
> >> > Idea",
> >> > where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
British
> >> > ally
> >> > throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a "loss
of
> >> > face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >
> >> > We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his ideas,
as
> >> > the
> >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on
that?
> >> >
> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national credit
also
> >> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding the
relationship
> >> > between the State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >> > era?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >> > Subject: [socialcredit] question
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >> >> Grip of Death*:
> >> >>
> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
> >> >> day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
> >> >> only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >> >> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >>
> >> >> Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> >> evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> >> > ________
> >> >> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >> >> today!
> >> > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> >> >> at
> >> >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> >> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
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> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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at
> >> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
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> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> >> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >
>
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