I think the sinking of the "Lusitania" in 1916 (which involved some
behaviour by her captain that defied orders designed to protect against
U-boats, and involved also an unexplained explosion that sent her to the
bottom in record time - information on this comes from Google) is also an
element in the involvement of the United States in WWI on the Allied side -
because of the substantial German population in the U.S., it took a "Pearl
Harbour" or "9/11" type of event to bring public opinion around on the
"proper" side.
Martin Hattersley
5929 - 189 St., NW
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
(780)483-5442
jmartinh@shaw.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
>
> (Peter wrote:-) . I never knew about the German navy in China. Western
> Samoa was given as a trust territory for NZ to administer after the
> fall of Germany. The US has Eastern Samoa. Western Samoa is independant
> now but have NZ citizenship as of right.
>
>
> (Joe replies:-) Pre-WW I China had been carved up into various 'spheres
> of
> influence' by the European powers of the day, and the USA and Japan. The
> Germans were based on the T'sientsin Peninusula, (spelling of that might
> differ in some records).
>
> Germany was late getting into the 'colonial' game. The best pickings were
> gone by the time they got going. I think Tanganyika (Tanzania, now), was
> the only thing they had other than their Chinese concession that was
> really
> of any value.
>
> They also had what's now Namibia, some possessions in West Africa, and
> Papua
> New Guinea, as well as what you mentioned. Samoa and some smaller islands
> in the south Pacific. Trying to dislodge them from Tanganyika took the
> British quite a while.
>
> Luckner was the German naval commander that had such success in the Indian
> Ocean, in between India and Africa. A very chivalrous sort, he made sure
> all the crews and passengers were safely off any Allied ship he sank
> before
> sending it to the bottom. Hardly the archtypical, ruthlessly barbaric,
> baby-bayonetting Hun of Allied propaganda. He eventually made it back to
> Germany.
>
> Their main Pacific naval force was commanded by Admiral Graf Spee. He
> gave
> the Royal Navy quite a drubbing off the coast of Chile. He met his end in
> a
> naval battle off the Falklands after rounding the Cape.
>
> Ironically, not that far from where the German battleship named after
> him,
> the "Graf Spee" opened her seacocks and scuttled early in World War Two.
> Rather than fight it out with the British Commonwealth warships that had
> her
> cornered.
>
> The other irony in all of this was the Japanese coming to the defence of
> British Columbia. Where, seven years earlier, a mob led by goons from
> the
> racist Asiatic-Exclusion League had gone on a rampage against the Chinese
> and Japanese that had settled here. The spillover of the American
> financial
> panic of 1907, and a genuine 'white' fear that more 'Asiatics' would be
> brought in to displace higher waged 'white' workers with lower waged
> 'yellow' ones was exploited by this group, who wanted to expell all
> non-whites from the Province.
>
> They smashed up businesses in Vancouver's Chinatown and Japtown areas.
> The
> Chinese 'turned the other cheek', so to speak. But the Japanese, when
> attacked, gave as good as they got. Or maybe better.
>
> It must have been a bit hard to swallow for some of these people that,
> seven
> years later, all that was keeping them from a possible attack by their
> fellow "white Europeans" was a Navy of little "yellow Asiatics". (And, of
> course, our two subs, one obsolete cruiser, and a couple of 'pop-guns' on
> shore.)
>
>
> (Peter continues:-) Douglas says in the same section ("The Big Idea" ~
> Joe) that it was the US which pressured Britiain to end the Treaty with
> Japan in 1922. A couple of pages earlier he mentioned that
> the B of E was put under a US advisor and appears to be 1917. I suspect
> that this coinsides with the US agreeing to come into the war after the
> same
> international banker deligation from Britian visited the US which would be
> the fulfillment of the promise made to Lloyd George the new Prime Minister
> in 1916, whom just happned to be also the British Zionist organisations
> solicitor, that if he should spare the unsparable troops from the war
> against Germany and do service breaking up the Ottoman Empire to free
> Palestine for- you can guess, they will be repaid by US assistence in the
> war.
>
> (Joe replies:-) I have yet to see a complete accounting anywhere else of
> the things Douglas mentions in that whole section, from the point where
> he's
> quoting the British Ambassador to Washington, Sir Cecil Spring-Rice, right
> through to the visit of Rufus Isaacs, and the change of sympathy of the
> German-American-Jewish financiers of Wall Street.
>
> We know that Douglas must have been very well-connected. He seemed to
> move
> in circles which definitely included the 'movers and shakers' of the
> post-WW
> I era. And he certainly must've had many private conversations with these
> people, in which they would likely be telling him many things which might
> have bearing on what he would be telling them.
>
> I think it's highly unlikely that what he wrote in that section would all
> be
> 'made-up', or the product of an 'anti-semitic' imagination. Yet that
> whole
> period, and beyond, seems to have an aura of mystery about it. There are
> things that happened that do not seem to make sense. They may be
> co-incidences, but it still seems strange that there are so many
> co-incidences. It's definitely an area in which there should be further
> research done, and especially if the passage of time has now unsealed much
> of what might have earlier been 'classified' information.
>
>
> (Peter continues:-) . The Americans need to look very closely
> at the series of building up war machines to be used and then destroyed
> because there have been very unhealthy signs appearing since the year
> 2000.
>
> (Joe replies:-) That certainly wouldn't hurt, though I doubt it would
> really change anything. The other night there was a documentary on the
> American PBS TV station we receive from Seattle about the growing
> political
> influence of those Americans who have convinced themselves that
> modern-Israel is composed of "God's Chosen People". And that America
> and
> Americans must do its bidding to achieve eternal Salvation.
>
> I believe those currently following this idea was stated to be something
> like 60 million people. About one fifth of the American population, in
> other words. We could probably expect a similar ratio here in Canada,
> though hopefully it would be less.
>
> These are certainly not 'evil' people, even though they are, in my
> opinion,
> hopelessly deluded. The problem is not so much with their belief, and
> those
> who take great pains to re-inforce its veracity, but that they are, at
> present, certainly a very pliable 'putty' in the hands of 'evil' people.
> And therein lies great danger for America and the world.
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>>
>>
>> > (Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
>> > credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
>> >
>> > (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret
>> > lending
>> > to
>> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed considerable
>> > international credit to go in the short time that it did from feudal
> state
>> > to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
> well-equipped
>> > military, I would think.
>> >
>> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have
> as
>> > an
>> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian military expansionism in
> the
>> > Far East and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
> War
>> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.) Indirectly,
> the
>> > weakening of Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
>> > towards
>> > British interests in India and Persia (Iran).
>> >
>> > After the outbreak of war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
>> > wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
> established
>> > in
>> > China. The Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
> including
>> > a
>> > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
> Kaiser
>> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most important
>> > overseas possession. (Quite likely not so much for what 'goods' China
>> > could
>> > provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet for
>> > German manufactured goods.)
>> >
>> > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
>> > menace
>> > to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
>> > facilities
>> > in the entire Pacific were then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
>> > B.C.
>> > Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the
> world
>> > that could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth
>> > ~
>> > and
>> > did, during WW II), would have been quite a military accomplishment.
>> >
>> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had but one
>> > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility, and the entire BC coast.
>> > Fortunately, for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
> ships
>> > to
>> > take up station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
>> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
>> > the
>> > BC Government secretly purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
> Navy
>> > from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
>> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
>> > circumvented
>> > when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of public
>> > support. )
>> >
>> > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German
>> > Pacific
>> > fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
> it
>> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some of
>> > those German sailors were later captured, and interned as POWs in New
>> > Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back to
>> > Germany.
>> >
>> > The main German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
>> > annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
> of
>> > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the Falklands, and
>> > removed that menace entirely.
>> >
>> > I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
>> > Mediterranean,
>> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
> threat
>> > for some time.
>> >
>> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
>> > Royal
>> > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for his
>> > country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
>> > non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the
>> > face
>> > when their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
>> >
>> > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as Douglas
>> > indicated
>> > in
>> > "The Big Idea", that the influence of 'International' Finance over
>> > post-war British policy had a hand in that.
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>> >
>> >
>> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege of character
> and
>> >> the prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
> of
>> > the
>> >> latter at the expense of the former.
>> >> In the early part of the century, I am not sure if it was pre-world
>> >> war
>> > one
>> >> or immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
> of
>> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable
>> >> that
>> >> in
>> >> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions and
>> > thus
>> >> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
>> >> would
>> >> advise.
>> >> This circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go
>> >> to
>> > war
>> >> upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
>> >> Peter
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
>> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > "....but gave evidence at
>> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
>> >> > Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
>> >> >>
>> >> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
>> >> > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
>> >> >
>> >> > (Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
> better.
>> >> >
>> >> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least
>> >> > not
>> >> > if
>> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of Douglas's presentation
> of
>> >> > evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
>> > Committees
>> >> > he
>> >> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan
> one
>> >> > we've
>> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.
>> >> >
>> >> > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
> World
>> >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe
>> >> > it
>> >> > would
>> >> > have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
> "officials"
>> > of
>> >> > that country's Finance Ministry.
>> >> >
>> >> > And, over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
> of
>> >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think this would most likely have been the nature of any
> "inquiries"
>> > he
>> >> > received from "officials" during his visit to Australia also.
>> >> > Doubtless
>> >> > there must have been "countless" conversations where various
>> >> > "officials"
>> >> > in
>> >> > various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
>> >> > conversation with him over the years.
>> >> >
>> >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his evidence before
> the
>> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the
> Japanese
>> >> > using
>> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
> disposed
>> >> > towards the Japanese.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The Big
>> >> > Idea",
>> >> > where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
> British
>> >> > ally
>> >> > throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a "loss
> of
>> >> > face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
>> >> >
>> >> > We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his ideas,
> as
>> >> > the
>> >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on
> that?
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national credit
> also
>> >> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding the
> relationship
>> >> > between the State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
>> >> > era?
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
>> >> > Subject: [socialcredit] question
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
>> >> >> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
>> >> >> Grip of Death*:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
>> >> >> day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
>> >> >> only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
>> >> >> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
>> >> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
>> >> >> evidence to in Japan and Australia?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
>> >> > ________
>> >> >> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
>> >> >> today!
>> >> > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>> >> >> For more information, visit
>> >> >> http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >> >
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at
>> >> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >> > You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz
>> >> > For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> >> at
>> >> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> >> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>> >> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > You're subscribed to this list with the email cymric@xtra.co.nz
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>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
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>
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> You're subscribed to this list with the email hattersleyjm@interbaun.com
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