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Great stuff, Peter. Can you give references to ptove these statements? Otherwise they are completely worthless and appear fanatical.
Regards. John R.
> From: cymric@xtra.co.nz
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:32:42 +1300
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
> Douglas has exposed something far more weightier than an intercepted
> telegram which is consistent with the deals done over the Palestine
> campaign.
> " In 1917, as the result of the collapse of Russia from causes which have
> been indicated elsewhere, Germany was in sight of victory, Rigid financial
> orthodoxy had strained the credit of the allies to breaking point. As Sir
> Cecil Spring Rice has pointed out in his letters, President Wilson was
> completely dominated by the German-Jewish group of which Kuhn, Loeb, the
> Schiffs and Warburgs were the moving spirits and these had not only done
> everything possible to achieve destruction of Russia both internally and
> externally, thus depriving the Allies of the strategic advantage of a double
> front, but had obstructed British interests in the United States to an
> extent which in any other circumstances would have amounted to effective
> participation in the war on the side of Germany. Lord Reading headed a
> delegation to Washington which resulted in the entry of America, with the
> co-operation of Kuhn, Loeb, into the war on the side of the Allies and the
> turning of the scale against Germany."
> The Big Idea, pages 47-8.
> The shakers and movers referred to were also big players in the advent of
> the Federal Reserve six months prior to the war.
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 1:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > Many thanks, Bill (McGonnigle), for the further information. I
> > incorrectly
> > stated that the part of the German Pacific Fleet (the "Emden") that went
> > into the Indian Ocean was commanded by Luckner. That should have been, as
> > you stated, Captain Muller.
> >
> > Luckner, the "Sea Devil", commanded a merchant raider not attached to the
> > German Pacific fleet. I believe it was he who was captured and interred
> > in
> > NZ, though, and later escaped.
> >
> > In regards to the "Lusitania", it was sunk in 1915, and though it stirred
> > up
> > great animosity in the USA at the time, the war against Germany was not
> > entered until 1917, after the Kaiser announced he would use unrestricted
> > submarine warfare in violation of his committment after the "Lusitania"
> > sinking not to do so. That and the publication of the "Zimmerman Note",
> > a
> > diplomatic telegram from Germany's Foreign Minister to the German
> > Ambassador
> > in Mexico intercepted and decoded by British Intelligence and passed on to
> > the US Government was said to have been the deciding factor.
> >
> > Joe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >
> >
> >> Amplifying Joe's statement on the German colonies in the Pacific.
> >> The Asiatic fleet consisted of the Heavy cruisers Scharhorst and
> >> Gneisenau, and the Light cruisers Dresden Liepzig, Nurenberg and Emden.
> > The
> >> Admiral Von Spee commanding that fleet did not attack Canada for several
> >> reasons. These were:-
> >> The presence of a powerful Australian fleet including the Battlecruiser
> >> Australia that would have been a formidable and highly dangerous
> >> adversary
> >> even for his fleet.
> >> The ambivalent attitude of the USA who would not permit coaling of his
> >> fleet in US ports and bases.
> >> The high possibility of the Japanese fleet blockading his fleet in
> >> TingTsao (The German Base in China) to prevent interuption of Japanese
> > trade
> >> with Australia, NZ, the Dutch East Indies and the French colonies in
> >> IndoChina, even if Japan did not directly intervene in the war.
> >> The problem of coal supplies for his fleet considering that nmost of
> >> the
> >> coaling depots in the Pacific were controlled by British or American
> >> interests. Only Samoa (a German colony) offered coaling facilities, and
> >> it
> >> was certain that this would be attacked and taken by the avaiable British
> >> and colonial forces at the earliest opportunity.
> >> These considerations wieghed heavily on the mind of Admiral Von Spee,
> > and
> >> he decided to head south via Samoa to go around Cape Horn, and break
> > through
> >> the Atlantic Blockade using coal supplies shipped to him by the various
> >> German embassies in the Neutral countries of South America. He came to
> > grief
> >> when he decided to attack the radio station on the Faukland Islands
> > unaware
> >> that Vice Admiral Sturdee with his squadron consisting of the battle
> >> cruisers Invincible and Inflexible together with 4 light cruises, a
> >> county
> >> class heavy cruiser and the old battleship Canopus, were in harbour. The
> > end
> >> result of this confronmtation is well known to any naval historian.
> >> The Only ship that did not follow this route was the Emden under the
> >> command of Captain Muller. His commerce raiding expedition in the Indian
> >> Ocean was a classic. He obtained his coal from the ships he captured and
> >> then sank. His mistake was to attempt to destroy the radio station on
> > Cocos
> >> Island. This station was able to send a distress call picked up by the
> >> protected cruiser HMAS Sydney. The arrival of the Sydney ended the Emdens
> >> raiding because this Australian cruiser outgunned the Emden and was able
> > to
> >> smash the German raider with little damage to herself. The Emden was
> >> scuttled on a reef, and her crew interned for the rest of the war.
> >> regards
> >> Bill McGunnigle
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 8:18 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >>
> >>
> >> > (Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> >> > credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >> >
> >> > (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret
> >> > lending
> >> > to
> >> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed considerable
> >> > international credit to go in the short time that it did from feudal
> > state
> >> > to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
> > well-equipped
> >> > military, I would think.
> >> >
> >> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have
> > as
> >> > an
> >> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian military expansionism in
> > the
> >> > Far East and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
> > War
> >> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.) Indirectly,
> > the
> >> > weakening of Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
> >> > towards
> >> > British interests in India and Persia (Iran).
> >> >
> >> > After the outbreak of war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> >> > wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
> > established
> >> > in
> >> > China. The Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
> > including
> >> > a
> >> > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
> > Kaiser
> >> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most important
> >> > overseas possession. (Quite likely not so much for what 'goods' China
> >> > could
> >> > provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> >> > German manufactured goods.)
> >> >
> >> > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
> >> > menace
> >> > to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
> >> > facilities
> >> > in the entire Pacific were then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> >> > B.C.
> >> > Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the
> > world
> >> > that could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth
> >> > ~
> >> > and
> >> > did, during WW II), would have been quite a military accomplishment.
> >> >
> >> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had but one
> >> > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility, and the entire BC coast.
> >> > Fortunately, for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
> > ships
> >> > to
> >> > take up station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
> >> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
> >> > the
> >> > BC Government secretly purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
> > Navy
> >> > from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
> >> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
> >> > circumvented
> >> > when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of public
> >> > support. )
> >> >
> >> > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German
> >> > Pacific
> >> > fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
> > it
> >> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some of
> >> > those German sailors were later captured, and interned as POWs in New
> >> > Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back to
> >> > Germany.
> >> >
> >> > The main German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> >> > annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
> > of
> >> > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the Falklands, and
> >> > removed that menace entirely.
> >> >
> >> > I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
> >> > Mediterranean,
> >> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
> > threat
> >> > for some time.
> >> >
> >> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
> >> > Royal
> >> > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for his
> >> > country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
> >> > non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the
> >> > face
> >> > when their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
> >> >
> >> > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as Douglas
> >> > indicated
> >> > in
> >> > "The Big Idea", that the influence of 'International' Finance over
> >> > post-war British policy had a hand in that.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> > Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege of character
> > and
> >> >> the prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
> > of
> >> > the
> >> >> latter at the expense of the former.
> >> >> In the early part of the century, I am not sure if it was pre-world
> >> >> war
> >> > one
> >> >> or immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
> > of
> >> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable
> >> >> that
> >> >> in
> >> >> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions and
> >> > thus
> >> >> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
> >> >> would
> >> >> advise.
> >> >> This circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go
> >> >> to
> >> > war
> >> >> upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
> >> >> Peter
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> >> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > "....but gave evidence at
> >> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> >> > Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> >> > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > (Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
> > better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least
> >> >> > not
> >> >> > if
> >> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of Douglas's presentation
> > of
> >> >> > evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
> >> > Committees
> >> >> > he
> >> >> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan
> > one
> >> >> > we've
> >> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
> > World
> >> >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
> > "officials"
> >> > of
> >> >> > that country's Finance Ministry.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And, over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
> > of
> >> >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I think this would most likely have been the nature of any
> > "inquiries"
> >> > he
> >> >> > received from "officials" during his visit to Australia also.
> >> >> > Doubtless
> >> >> > there must have been "countless" conversations where various
> >> >> > "officials"
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
> >> >> > conversation with him over the years.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas, despite his evidence before
> > the
> >> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the
> > Japanese
> >> >> > using
> >> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
> > disposed
> >> >> > towards the Japanese.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The Big
> >> >> > Idea",
> >> >> > where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
> > British
> >> >> > ally
> >> >> > throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a "loss
> > of
> >> >> > face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We have not discussed what is implied in "the reverse" of his ideas,
> > as
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on
> > that?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national credit
> > also
> >> >> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding the
> > relationship
> >> >> > between the State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >> >> > era?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> >> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >> >> > Subject: [socialcredit] question
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >> >> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >> >> >> Grip of Death*:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
> >> >> >> day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
> >> >> >> only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >> >> >> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> >> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> >> >> evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________________
> >> >> > ________
> >> >> >> Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >> >> >> today!
> >> >> > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >> >
> >> >>
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