| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] question | | Date: | Wednesday, October 10, 2007 13:33:29 (-0400) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5064 (written by Peter) |
(Peter wrote:-) Also I believe that the main British
oil supply was in Brunei, Nth Borneo which is a sultanate.
(Joe replies:-) Oil was not discovered in Brunei
until 1929, so they wouldn't have been the major pre-war supplier The
Burmese oilfields, plus all the ancilliary refining, storage and transportation
networks were well developed and dated back to the dawn of the 20th
century.
The Burmah Oil Company Ltd. had massive facilities
at Rangoon, which supplied much of the oil needs of India, and likely also
exported to other parts of Asia, including Japan. Standard Oil was in
there too. India's oil needs in those days was primarily for
kerosene, used as lamp oil.
There was a lawsuit over the wartime ordered
destruction of Burmah Oil Co. facilities that lasted for years after war, right
up into the mid 1960's or later, if I recall correctly. The damage
done was so extensive I don't think the Burmese oilfields ever did regain
the productivity they had pre-war.
A considerable amount of oil imported by Japan, maybe even
most of it, would have come from the USA, which had extensive oil
fields and refineries, etc., operating along the southern coast of
California then.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 2:01
AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
The B of E loan to Germany wasnt of the
same magnatude as the investments by Wall St.
A great reference for the latter is "Wall Street and the
rise of Hitler" by the late Anthony C Sutton, Bloomfield Books.
I believe that Japan got most if not all its oil from
the US prior to Pearl Harbour. There was nomother way they could have
cut off the supply to Japan tipping the political balance in Japan towards the
war-hawks faction.
Also I believe that the main British oil supply was in
Brunei, Nth Borneo which is a sultanate.
I also understand that the oil well fires in Iraq were
set by British and US special forces for propaganda reasons.
In 2003 they were sent in again to make sure S.H didnt actually do it
since they were going to occupy the whole country. This has
been published in western media.
Peter
----n.- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 5:58
AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
(John Rawson wrote:-) I have seen clains that the B.
of E. lent Japan £35 million ab. 1935 to build its fleet. About the
time it lent Nazi Germany £50 million.
(Joe replies:-) I would take it that those sums
would have been spent in Britain, to purchase British-priced goods.
Thereby aiding the all important goal of 'full-employment', no matter what
the eventual cost.
We know Japan was deficient in tool steel, which it
had to source from abroad. Likely most of their machine tools, (lathes,
milling machines, drill presses, as well as heavier machinery ~ "things to
make things with" ~ would have had to have been imported as
well.
And they did not have sufficient iron ore to run their
steel industry, but relied on imported 'scrap'. (And still do ~
samurai swords aside, their steel is garbage. You cannot
machine it smoothly, it's full of hard spots. Even today American
steel (from Bethlehem Steel , if it can be had) is the best. Beautiful
stuff to work with.)
Also the Japanese would have had to buy all their
petroleum, as everything moved from being coal powered to oil powered.
At that time they'd have been sourcing that from the USA, the
Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), or the British. Who controlled the
major oilfield in Asia then, in Burma. (The facilities that were set
ablaze and destroyed by the retreating British Army just before Rangoon
fell to the Japanese~ Saddam wasn't the first to use those tactics! The
British based Burmah Oil Company, Ltd., wanted compensation for their
losses from the British government after the war. I don't
know whether they ever got it.)
I would imagine pre-war Japan had a constantly growing
need to accumulate enough 'foreign exchange' to purchase what it needed to
try to maintain itself as a world-class power. Small wonder they would
try to use their own 'national credit' internally by rather unorthodox
methods if that was the means to their desired end.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 12:47
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
question
I have seen clains that the B. of E. lent Japan £35 million
ab. 1935 to build its fleet. About the time it lent Nazi Germany £50
million.
Unfortunately, the usual Socred lack of documentation of
sources prevails.
Regards. John R.
> Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2007 15:18:19
-0400
> From: thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
> (Peter wrote:-)
"....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> credit to
Japan that it was kept a secret."
>
> (Joe replies:-) I don't
know about the Bank of England's secret lending to
> Japan, Peter,
but it's plausible. Japan must have needed considerable
>
international credit to go in the short time that it did from feudal
state
> to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
well-equipped
> military, I would think.
>
> There's no
question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have as an
>
ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian military expansionism in
the
> Far East and northern China by being the victors in the
Russo-Japanese War
> in 1905. (With considerable covert British
assistance.) Indirectly, the
> weakening of Russia would have
removed a threat from that direction towards
> British interests in
India and Persia (Iran).
>
> After the outbreak of war in
Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> wrest control over the
'sphere of influence' that Germany had established in
> China. The
Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there, including a
>
powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
Kaiser
> attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most
important
> overseas possession. (Quite likely not so much for what
'goods' China could
> provide Germany, but as a substantial
peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> German manufactured
goods.)
>
> This German Pacific Fleet based in China was
considered to be a prime menace
> to British Columbia, since the
British Empire's main ship-repair facilities
> in the entire Pacific
were then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria, B.C.
> Destruction
of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the world
>
that could accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth ~
and
> did, during WW II), would have been quite a military
accomplishment.
>
> At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal
Canadian Navy had but one
> obsolete cruiser to defend this
facility, and the entire BC coast.
> Fortunately, for us, the
Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern ships to
> take up
station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
>
attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
the
> BC Government secretly purchased two submarines made for the
Chilean Navy
> from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra
vires' of its
> Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would
seem, CAN be circumvented
> when circumstances warrant it, and
there's a clear indication of public
> support. )
>
>
As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German
Pacific
> fleet divided, with one small group going into the Indian
Ocean, where it
> wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some
time. I believe some of
> those German sailors were later captured,
and interned as POWs in New
> Zealand. Before escaping, I believe,
and somehow making it back to
> Germany.
>
> The main
German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
>
annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
of
> Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the
Falklands, and
> removed that menace entirely.
>
> I
believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
Mediterranean,
> where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a
enemy submarine threat
> for some time.
>
> After the
war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the Royal
>
Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for
his
> country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique
status as an
> non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of
a slap in the face
> when their alliance was not renewed by Britain
a short time later.
>
> I think it's quite within the realm
of possibility, as Douglas indicated in
> "The Big Idea", that the
influence of 'International' Finance over
> post-war British policy
had a hand in that.
>
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007
3:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege of
character and
> > the prestege of money power. Both Japan and
Britain were the victims of
> the
> > latter at the expense
of the former.
> > In the early part of the century, I am not
sure if it was pre-world war
> one
> > or immediately after
that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> > credit to
Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable that in
>
> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions
and
> thus
> > the policy outside their control- doing the
opposite to what Douglas would
> > advise.
> > This
circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go to
>
war
> > upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil
supplies.
> > Peter
> >
> > ----- Original
Message -----
> > From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 07,
2007 12:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
> > > "....but gave evidence at
> >
> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >
> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> > >>
>
> > (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas
give
> > > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
> >
>
> > > (Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have
phrased that a bit better.
> > >
> > > The
"official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least not
if
> > > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of
Douglas's presentation of
> > > evidence under that
designation as it applies to the various
> Committees
> >
> he
> > > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand,
and the MacMillan one
> > > we've
> > > been
discussing most recently. There are four, by my count.
> >
>
> > > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his
paper at the World
> > > Engineering Conference Douglas was
attending in Tokyo, I believe it
> > > would
> > >
have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
"officials"
> of
> > > that country's Finance
Ministry.
> > >
> > > And, over the period of a
week apparently, must have answered many of
> > > their
"inquiries" as to his ideas.
> > >
> > > I think
this would most likely have been the nature of any "inquiries"
>
he
> > > received from "officials" during his visit to
Australia also. Doubtless
> > > there must have been
"countless" conversations where various "officials"
> > >
in
> > > various places made their own "inquiries" regarding
his ideas in
> > > conversation with him over the
years.
> > >
> > > It is interesting to note that
Douglas, despite his evidence before the
> > > Alberta
Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the Japanese
>
> > using
> > > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems
to be quite favourably disposed
> > > towards the
Japanese.
> > >
> > > This is also touched on in
his more 'political' writings in "The Big
> > > Idea",
>
> > where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
British
> > > ally
> > > throughout World War One
from start to end, was subjected to a "loss of
> > > face"
when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >
>
> > > We have not discussed what is implied in "the
reverse" of his ideas, as
> > > the
> > > Japanese
applied them during the pre-WWII years. Any comments on that?
> >
>
> > > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on
national credit also
> > > implies the "the reverse" of his
philosophy regarding the relationship
> > > between the State
and the individual as regards the Japan of that era?
> >
>
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message
-----
> > > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>
> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > Sent:
Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> > > Subject:
[socialcredit] question
> > >
> > >
> >
>> The current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >
>> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >
>> Grip of Death*:
> > >>
> > >>
"...Douglas was a massive political influence in his
> > >>
day, and a major figure on the world stage. He not
> > >>
only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >
>> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
>
> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >
>>
> > >> Question: What "official inquiries" did
Douglas give
> > >> evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>>
> > >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> > ________
> > >> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.
Join our Network Research Panel today!
> > >
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
>>
> > >>
> > >>
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