|
Howdy Bill,
I cant see how you can say we are about the same when John
gave no numbers, said he believed there were none taken from the Western
front, nor has he given any quotes while he demands them from
me.
The estimate in the personal record Reed quoted, three
dividions were needed to be taken from the Western front and added to what was
already collected in Egypt and the total was over a million.
Thanks for the information on George it mirrors what was
in my quoted material. He was clearly a pupet of the internationalists
playing countries against each other.
Amongst the bankers that were involved in the delegation
and negoitaions in the US Douglas mentioned were those whom financied the
Bolshivist revolution which freed up the German armies when Britain had weakened
its front because of the Palestinian venture which was being pushed from
1915.
The point that is in issue is not the three division
taken but what was denied to the Western Front before any were taken and not
only was this a worst military shame in British history according to the Colonel
but it went on to say the war could have ended sooner!
Peter.
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 3:10
PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
Hi John and Peter
While you are both correct in your assessment of the number of troops
deflected from the western front in 1916, I believe that many of these were
actually diverted to Salonika to support the Serbian forces who had fought
their way to that city with a view to being evacuated by the allies. In the
event the allies (illegally) sized the city and created a front line
streaching across the Greek peninsula, and effectively stopped further Central
Power incursions southward. I believe the numbers of allied troops in the
enclave amounted to some 800,000, but I am not sure of the actual figures of
British troops involved. It was refered to jocularily by the Central
Powers as " their biggest POW camp fortunately fed by the British". With
respect to Lloyd George it is well known that he was refered to as " the man
who never told the truth", and his political double dealing and other
shinnanigens are legendary. It could be said that his influence on internal
British politics were directly responsible for the partition of Ireland and
the subsequent three quarters of a century of misrule and trouble in Northern
Ireland. I have not really associated him with the Palestine question, but can
well believe it. The other disaster he can be directly be held responsible for
was the Passendale campaign in 1917. Haig wanted to stop the battle in July
when he realised that he would not get anywhere without accepting horrendous
casualties. Lloyd George sent him a secret despatch telling him that the
attack had to continue because of the Mutinies in the Frech armies after the
disasterous Neville offensive in mid 1917. Haig had to obey his political
master who did not allow Haig to stop the attacks until the winter set in.
This campaign led to the vilification of Haig in later life, and,
unfortunately, Haig could not defend himself by quoting the secret despatch.
This was another example of Lloyd George's duplicity. Lloyd-George was also
responsible for several far reaching reforms in Britain most notably the
establishment of Old age pensions and the foundation of the health service
with the formation of "panels" for general practitioners where they were given
a fee for every patient that they treated. He was an
enigma and utterly ruthless in persuing his own aims.
regards
Bill McG
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:46
PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
Thanks John, I will trade your second
expletive as well for a good dose of 'quote'.
"Sir William Robertson corroberates: 'Up to
December 1916' ( when Mr Lloyd George becomes Prime Minister ) 'operations
beyond the Suez Canal had been essentially defensive in principle, the
government and the General Staff alike ....recognising the paramount
importance of the struggle in Europe and the need to give the armies there
the utmost support. This unanimity between ministers soldiers did not
obtain after the premiership changed hands....The fundamental difference of
opinion was particularly obstructive in the case of Palestine .....The new
War Cabinet had been in existence only a few days when it directed the
general Staff to examine the possibility of extending the operations in
Palestine....The General Staff put the requirements at three additional
divisions and these could only be obtained from the armies on the Western
Front....The General Staff said the project would prove a great source
of emparrassment and injure our prospects of success in France....These
conclusions were disappointing to Ministers, who wished to see Palestine
occupied at once, but they could not be refuted ....In February the War
Cabinet again approached the Chief of the General Staff, asking what
progress was being made with the preparation of a autumn campaign in
Palestine".
These passages show how the course of State and
military operations in war may be "deflected" by political pressure behind
the scenes. In this case, the issue of the battle between the
politicians and the soldier affects the lives of nations at the present
time, the 1950's.
Mr Lloyd George then reinforced himself by a
move which once more shows the long thought that must have gone into the
preparation of this enterprise, and the careful slection of "adminstrators",
to support it, that must have gone before. He proposed that the
War Cabinet "take the Dominions into Counsel in a much larger measure than
hitherto in the prosecution of the war". Put in that way, the idea
appealed greatly to the public masses in England. Fighting-men from
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were campaigning shoulder to
shoulder with their own sons. The immediate response of the overseas
countries to the "old country's" danger had touched the native Briton's
heart, and he was very happy that their leaders should join more closely
with his own in the "prosecuting the war".
However, "the diplomat's word" (and his
intention) differed greatly from his deed; Mr Lloyd George's
proposal was merely a "cover" for bringing to London General
Smuts from South Africa, who was regarded by the Zionists as their most
valuable "friend" outside Europe and America, and General Smuts was brought
across to propose the conquest of Palestine! (
pages 252-253)
(pages 258-259)
" He wrote, " We are feeding over a
million men into the sideshow theatres of war and are letting down our
strengths in France at a moment when all the Boche forces from Russia may be
coming against us.....I am unable to get the support from the editor of The
Times that I must have to rouse the country and I do not think I will be
able to go on with him much longer". ( I discovered Colonel
Repington's diaries through my work on this book and then realised that his
experience was identical with mine, just twenty years later, with the same
editor). A month later he wrote, "In a stormy interview I told Mr
Geoffrey Dawson that his subservience to the War Cabinet during this year
was largely the cause of the dangerous position of our army....I would have
nothing more to do with The Times".
This left one man in England who was able
and willing to publish the truth. Mr H.A. Gwynne, of the Morning Post,
printed Colonel Repington's article, which exposed the weakeing of the
French front on the eve of its attack, without submitting it to the
censor. He and Colonel Repington then were prosecuted, tried and fined
( public opinion was apparently too much on their side for harsher
retribution). Sir William Robertson wrote to Colonel Repington, "Like
yourself, I did what was best in the general interests of the country and
the result has been exactly what I expected....But the great thing is to
keep on a straight course and then one may be sure that good will eventually
come of what may now seem to be evil".
Thus the two wartime years of Mr Lloyd
George's leadership in England were momentous in their efforts on the
present time, and I believe I have shown how he achieved office and what
paramount purpose he pursued through it. After eighteen months he had
overcome all opposition, diverted a mass of men from France to Palestine,
and was ready at last for the great adventure.
On March 7, 1918 he gave orders for
"a decisive campaign" to conquer all Palestine, and sent General Smuts there
to instruct General Allanby accordingly.
On March 21, 1918 the long-awaited
German attack in France began, embodying all the men, guns and aircraft
released from the Russian front.
The "decisive campaign" in Palestine was
immediately suspended and every man who could be squeezed out of Palestine
was rushed to France. The total number of men emplyed in Palestine was
1,192,511 up to October 1918 ( General Robertson).
On March 27, 1918 Colonel Repington
wrote, "This is the worst defeat in the histroy of the army". By June
6 the Germans claimed 175,000 prisoners and
over 2,000 guns."
The Controversy Of Zion by Douglas Reed
Peter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:21
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
question
Great stuff, Peter. Can you give references to ptove
these statements? Otherwise they are completely worthless and appear
fanatical.
Regards. John
R.
> From: cymric@xtra.co.nz
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:32:42 +1300
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
>
> Douglas has exposed something far more weightier
than an intercepted
> telegram which is consistent with the deals
done over the Palestine
> campaign.
> " In 1917, as the
result of the collapse of Russia from causes which have
> been
indicated elsewhere, Germany was in sight of victory, Rigid financial
> orthodoxy had strained the credit of the allies to breaking
point. As Sir
> Cecil Spring Rice has pointed out in his letters,
President Wilson was
> completely dominated by the German-Jewish
group of which Kuhn, Loeb, the
> Schiffs and Warburgs were the
moving spirits and these had not only done
> everything possible to
achieve destruction of Russia both internally and
> externally,
thus depriving the Allies of the strategic advantage of a double
>
front, but had obstructed British interests in the United States to an
> extent which in any other circumstances would have amounted to
effective
> participation in the war on the side of Germany. Lord
Reading headed a
> delegation to Washington which resulted in the
entry of America, with the
> co-operation of Kuhn, Loeb, into the
war on the side of the Allies and the
> turning of the scale
against Germany."
> The Big Idea, pages 47-8.
> The shakers
and movers referred to were also big players in the advent of
> the
Federal Reserve six months prior to the war.
> Peter
> -----
Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007
1:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > Many thanks, Bill (McGonnigle), for the further information.
I
> > incorrectly
> > stated that the part of the
German Pacific Fleet (the "Emden") that went
> > into the Indian
Ocean was commanded by Luckner. That should have been, as
> > you
stated, Captain Muller.
> >
> > Luckner, the "Sea
Devil", commanded a merchant raider not attached to the
> >
German Pacific fleet. I believe it was he who was captured and interred
> > in
> > NZ, though, and later escaped.
>
>
> > In regards to the "Lusitania", it was sunk in 1915, and
though it stirred
> > up
> > great animosity in the USA
at the time, the war against Germany was not
> > entered until
1917, after the Kaiser announced he would use unrestricted
> >
submarine warfare in violation of his committment after the
"Lusitania"
> > sinking not to do so. That and the publication of
the "Zimmerman Note",
> > a
> > diplomatic telegram
from Germany's Foreign Minister to the German
> >
Ambassador
> > in Mexico intercepted and decoded by British
Intelligence and passed on to
> > the US Government was said to
have been the deciding factor.
> >
> > Joe
> >
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "William Hugh McGunnigle"
<wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09,
2007 12:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
> >> Amplifying Joe's statement on the
German colonies in the Pacific.
> >> The Asiatic fleet
consisted of the Heavy cruisers Scharhorst and
> >> Gneisenau,
and the Light cruisers Dresden Liepzig, Nurenberg and Emden.
> >
The
> >> Admiral Von Spee commanding that fleet did not attack
Canada for several
> >> reasons. These were:-
> >>
The presence of a powerful Australian fleet including the
Battlecruiser
> >> Australia that would have been a formidable
and highly dangerous
> >> adversary
> >> even for
his fleet.
> >> The ambivalent attitude of the USA who would
not permit coaling of his
> >> fleet in US ports and
bases.
> >> The high possibility of the Japanese fleet
blockading his fleet in
> >> TingTsao (The German Base in
China) to prevent interuption of Japanese
> > trade
>
>> with Australia, NZ, the Dutch East Indies and the French colonies
in
> >> IndoChina, even if Japan did not directly intervene in
the war.
> >> The problem of coal supplies for his fleet
considering that nmost of
> >> the
> >> coaling
depots in the Pacific were controlled by British or American
>
>> interests. Only Samoa (a German colony) offered coaling
facilities, and
> >> it
> >> was certain that
this would be attacked and taken by the avaiable British
> >>
and colonial forces at the earliest opportunity.
> >> These
considerations wieghed heavily on the mind of Admiral Von Spee,
>
> and
> >> he decided to head south via Samoa to go around
Cape Horn, and break
> > through
> >> the Atlantic
Blockade using coal supplies shipped to him by the various
>
>> German embassies in the Neutral countries of South America. He
came to
> > grief
> >> when he decided to attack the
radio station on the Faukland Islands
> > unaware
>
>> that Vice Admiral Sturdee with his squadron consisting of the
battle
> >> cruisers Invincible and Inflexible together with 4
light cruises, a
> >> county
> >> class heavy
cruiser and the old battleship Canopus, were in harbour. The
> >
end
> >> result of this confronmtation is well known to any
naval historian.
> >> The Only ship that did not follow this
route was the Emden under the
> >> command of Captain Muller.
His commerce raiding expedition in the Indian
> >> Ocean was a
classic. He obtained his coal from the ships he captured and
>
>> then sank. His mistake was to attempt to destroy the radio
station on
> > Cocos
> >> Island. This station was
able to send a distress call picked up by the
> >> protected
cruiser HMAS Sydney. The arrival of the Sydney ended the Emdens
>
>> raiding because this Australian cruiser outgunned the Emden and
was able
> > to
> >> smash the German raider with
little damage to herself. The Emden was
> >> scuttled on a
reef, and her crew interned for the rest of the war.
> >>
regards
> >> Bill McGunnigle
> >> ----- Original
Message -----
> >> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, October
08, 2007 8:18 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
> >>
> >>
> >> > (Peter
wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
>
>> > credit to Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >>
>
> >> > (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of
England's secret
> >> > lending
> >> >
to
> >> > Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have
needed considerable
> >> > international credit to go in
the short time that it did from feudal
> > state
> >>
> to a modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
>
> well-equipped
> >> > military, I would think.
>
>> >
> >> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was
quite useful to Britain to have
> > as
> >> >
an
> >> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian
military expansionism in
> > the
> >> > Far East
and northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
> >
War
> >> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British
assistance.) Indirectly,
> > the
> >> > weakening
of Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
> >>
> towards
> >> > British interests in India and Persia
(Iran).
> >> >
> >> > After the outbreak of
war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> >> >
wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
> >
established
> >> > in
> >> > China. The
Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
> >
including
> >> > a
> >> > powerful fleet of
modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
> >
Kaiser
> >> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be
Germany's most important
> >> > overseas possession. (Quite
likely not so much for what 'goods' China
> >> >
could
> >> > provide Germany, but as a substantial
peace-time 'captive' outlet for
> >> > German manufactured
goods.)
> >> >
> >> > This German Pacific
Fleet based in China was considered to be a prime
> >> >
menace
> >> > to British Columbia, since the British
Empire's main ship-repair
> >> > facilities
>
>> > in the entire Pacific were then located at Esquimalt,
outside Victoria,
> >> > B.C.
> >> >
Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in
the
> > world
> >> > that could accomodate a ship
the size of the original Queen Elizabeth
> >> > ~
>
>> > and
> >> > did, during WW II), would have
been quite a military accomplishment.
> >> >
>
>> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had
but one
> >> > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility,
and the entire BC coast.
> >> > Fortunately, for us, the
Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
> > ships
>
>> > to
> >> > take up station and defend against
what was feared would be an imminent
> >> > attack. (Prior
to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate defences,
> >>
> the
> >> > BC Government secretly purchased two
submarines made for the Chilean
> > Navy
> >> >
from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
>
>> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN
be
> >> > circumvented
> >> > when
circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of public
>
>> > support. )
> >> >
> >> > As it
turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The German
>
>> > Pacific
> >> > fleet divided, with one small
group going into the Indian Ocean, where
> > it
> >>
> wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some
of
> >> > those German sailors were later captured, and
interned as POWs in New
> >> > Zealand. Before escaping, I
believe, and somehow making it back to
> >> >
Germany.
> >> >
> >> > The main German force
made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> >> >
annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the
coast
> > of
> >> > Chile. The Royal Navy later
turned the tables off the Falklands, and
> >> > removed
that menace entirely.
> >> >
> >> > I
believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
>
>> > Mediterranean,
> >> > where the Austro-
Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
> >
threat
> >> > for some time.
> >> >
>
>> > After the war, Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George
V at the
> >> > Royal
> >> > Family's
Balmoral estate, an indication of British appreciation for his
>
>> > country's war effort, and that Japan had achieved a unique
status as an
> >> > non-white world power. It must have
been somewhat of a slap in the
> >> > face
>
>> > when their alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time
later.
> >> >
> >> > I think it's quite
within the realm of possibility, as Douglas
> >> >
indicated
> >> > in
> >> > "The Big Idea",
that the influence of 'International' Finance over
> >> >
post-war British policy had a hand in that.
> >> >
>
>> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> >>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> > Sent:
Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> >> > Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] question
> >> >
> >>
>
> >> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between
the prestege of character
> > and
> >> >> the
prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
>
> of
> >> > the
> >> >> latter at the
expense of the former.
> >> >> In the early part of the
century, I am not sure if it was pre-world
> >> >>
war
> >> > one
> >> >> or immediately
after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
> >
of
> >> >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It
would be inevitable
> >> >> that
> >>
>> in
> >> >> the thirties Japan would have been
subject to the banks directions and
> >> > thus
>
>> >> the policy outside their control- doing the opposite to
what Douglas
> >> >> would
> >> >>
advise.
> >> >> This circmstance may have had an
influence of Japan's decision to go
> >> >> to
>
>> > war
> >> >> upon the US ( some neutral
policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
> >> >>
Peter
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original
Message -----
> >> >> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday,
October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] question
> >> >>
> >>
>>
> >> >> > "....but gave evidence at
>
>> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain,
Japan,
> >> >> > Canada, New Zealand and
Australia."
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas
give
> >> >> > evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
(Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
>
> better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
The "official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least
>
>> >> > not
> >> >> > if
>
>> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of
Douglas's presentation
> > of
> >> >> >
evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
>
>> > Committees
> >> >> > he
>
>> >> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand,
and the MacMillan
> > one
> >> >> >
we've
> >> >> > been discussing most recently. There
are four, by my count.
> >> >> >
> >>
>> > In Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at
the
> > World
> >> >> > Engineering
Conference Douglas was attending in Tokyo, I believe
> >>
>> > it
> >> >> > would
> >>
>> > have been more correct to state that he was interviewed
by
> > "officials"
> >> > of
> >>
>> > that country's Finance Ministry.
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > And, over the period of a week
apparently, must have answered many
> > of
> >>
>> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > I think this would most likely have
been the nature of any
> > "inquiries"
> >> >
he
> >> >> > received from "officials" during his
visit to Australia also.
> >> >> > Doubtless
>
>> >> > there must have been "countless" conversations
where various
> >> >> > "officials"
> >>
>> > in
> >> >> > various places made their
own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
> >> >> >
conversation with him over the years.
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > It is interesting to note that
Douglas, despite his evidence before
> > the
> >>
>> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of
the
> > Japanese
> >> >> > using
>
>> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems to be quite
favourably
> > disposed
> >> >> > towards
the Japanese.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The
Big
> >> >> > Idea",
> >> >> >
where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
>
> British
> >> >> > ally
> >> >>
> throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a
"loss
> > of
> >> >> > face" when their
alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > We have not discussed what is implied
in "the reverse" of his ideas,
> > as
> >> >>
> the
> >> >> > Japanese applied them during the
pre-WWII years. Any comments on
> > that?
> >>
>> >
> >> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse"
of Douglas's ideas on national credit
> > also
> >>
>> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding
the
> > relationship
> >> >> > between the
State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >>
>> > era?
> >> >> >
> >>
>> >
> >> >> > ----- Original Message
-----
> >> >> > From:
<william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> >> >> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >> > Sent:
Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >> >> >
Subject: [socialcredit] question
> >> >> >
>
>> >> >
> >> >> >> The current
issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >> >>
this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >>
>> >> Grip of Death*:
> >> >>
>>
> >> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive
political influence in his
> >> >> >> day, and a
major figure on the world stage. He not
> >> >> >>
only had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> >>
>> >> countless official inquiries in Great Britain,
Japan,
> >> >> >> Canada, New Zealand and
Australia."
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
>> Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas give
>
>> >> >> evidence to in Japan and Australia?
>
>> >> >>
> >> >> >>
>
>> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >>
>
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
>
>> >> > ________
> >> >> >> Shape
Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >>
>> >> today!
> >> >> >
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>> >> >>
> >> >> >>
>
>> >>
> >>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> >> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion
topic of this list
> >> >> >> are
>
>> >> >> at
> >> >> >>
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> >> >>
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> >> >> >> For more
information, visit
> >> >> >>
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >> >>
>
> >> >> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> >> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic
of this list are
> > at
> >> >> >
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> >> >>
> You're subscribed to this list with the email
cymric@xtra.co.nz
> >> >> > For more information,
visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >> >>
>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> >> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of
this list are
> >> >> at
> >> >>
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> >> >>
You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
>
>> >> For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
> >> >
>
>> >
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>
>> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
list are at
> >> >
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> >> > You're
subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
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