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Hi John,
Thanks, John. There's quite a bit on the Internet
about Count Felix von Luckner. He had quite an interesting
life.
Regards,
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:42
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
question
Von Luckner was imprisoned on Soames Island in Wellington
Harbour. He swam about three miles to shore and somehow managed to get
out of the country.
Symbolic of the difference between NZ and Aus. He
visited both a few years before WW2. Got an almost hero's welcome here,
and more or less the bum's rush from the
Aussies.
Regards. John
R.
> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:44:43 -0400
> From:
thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] question
>
> Many thanks, Bill (McGonnigle), for
the further information. I incorrectly
> stated that the part of the
German Pacific Fleet (the "Emden") that went
> into the Indian Ocean was
commanded by Luckner. That should have been, as
> you stated, Captain
Muller.
>
> Luckner, the "Sea Devil", commanded a merchant raider
not attached to the
> German Pacific fleet. I believe it was he who was
captured and interred in
> NZ, though, and later escaped.
>
> In regards to the "Lusitania", it was sunk in 1915, and though it
stirred up
> great animosity in the USA at the time, the war against
Germany was not
> entered until 1917, after the Kaiser announced he
would use unrestricted
> submarine warfare in violation of his
committment after the "Lusitania"
> sinking not to do so. That and the
publication of the "Zimmerman Note", a
> diplomatic telegram from
Germany's Foreign Minister to the German Ambassador
> in Mexico
intercepted and decoded by British Intelligence and passed on to
> the
US Government was said to have been the deciding factor.
>
>
Joe
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Hugh
McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 12:53
AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
Amplifying Joe's statement on the German colonies in the Pacific.
> >
The Asiatic fleet consisted of the Heavy cruisers Scharhorst and
> >
Gneisenau, and the Light cruisers Dresden Liepzig, Nurenberg and
Emden.
> The
> > Admiral Von Spee commanding that fleet did not
attack Canada for several
> > reasons. These were:-
> > The
presence of a powerful Australian fleet including the Battlecruiser
>
> Australia that would have been a formidable and highly dangerous
adversary
> > even for his fleet.
> > The ambivalent
attitude of the USA who would not permit coaling of his
> > fleet in
US ports and bases.
> > The high possibility of the Japanese fleet
blockading his fleet in
> > TingTsao (The German Base in China) to
prevent interuption of Japanese
> trade
> > with Australia, NZ,
the Dutch East Indies and the French colonies in
> > IndoChina, even
if Japan did not directly intervene in the war.
> > The problem of
coal supplies for his fleet considering that nmost of the
> > coaling
depots in the Pacific were controlled by British or American
> >
interests. Only Samoa (a German colony) offered coaling facilities, and
it
> > was certain that this would be attacked and taken by the
avaiable British
> > and colonial forces at the earliest
opportunity.
> > These considerations wieghed heavily on the mind of
Admiral Von Spee,
> and
> > he decided to head south via Samoa
to go around Cape Horn, and break
> through
> > the Atlantic
Blockade using coal supplies shipped to him by the various
> > German
embassies in the Neutral countries of South America. He came to
>
grief
> > when he decided to attack the radio station on the Faukland
Islands
> unaware
> > that Vice Admiral Sturdee with his
squadron consisting of the battle
> > cruisers Invincible and
Inflexible together with 4 light cruises, a county
> > class heavy
cruiser and the old battleship Canopus, were in harbour. The
>
end
> > result of this confronmtation is well known to any naval
historian.
> > The Only ship that did not follow this route was the
Emden under the
> > command of Captain Muller. His commerce raiding
expedition in the Indian
> > Ocean was a classic. He obtained his
coal from the ships he captured and
> > then sank. His mistake was to
attempt to destroy the radio station on
> Cocos
> > Island.
This station was able to send a distress call picked up by the
> >
protected cruiser HMAS Sydney. The arrival of the Sydney ended the
Emdens
> > raiding because this Australian cruiser outgunned the
Emden and was able
> to
> > smash the German raider with little
damage to herself. The Emden was
> > scuttled on a reef, and her crew
interned for the rest of the war.
> > regards
> > Bill
McGunnigle
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe
Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007
8:18 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
> >
>
>
> > > (Peter wrote:-) "....the Bank of England lent such a
huge amount of
> > > credit to Japan that it was kept a
secret."
> > >
> > > (Joe replies:-) I don't know
about the Bank of England's secret lending
> > > to
> >
> Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed
considerable
> > > international credit to go in the short time
that it did from feudal
> state
> > > to a modern,
industrialised country complete with a modern,
> well-equipped
>
> > military, I would think.
> > >
> > > There's
no question pre-WW I Japan was quite useful to Britain to have
>
as
> > > an
> > > ally. The Japanese directly checked
Russian military expansionism in
> the
> > > Far East and
northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
> War
>
> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British assistance.)
Indirectly,
> the
> > > weakening of Russia would have
removed a threat from that direction
> > > towards
> >
> British interests in India and Persia (Iran).
> > >
>
> > After the outbreak of war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able
to
> > > wrest control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany
had
> established
> > > in
> > > China. The
Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
> including
>
> > a
> > > powerful fleet of modern warships. Evidence of
the importance the
> Kaiser
> > > attached to what he
reportedly stated to be Germany's most important
> > > overseas
possession. (Quite likely not so much for what 'goods' China
> > >
could
> > > provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time
'captive' outlet for
> > > German manufactured goods.)
>
> >
> > > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was
considered to be a prime
> > > menace
> > > to British
Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
> > >
facilities
> > > in the entire Pacific were then located at
Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> > > B.C.
> > >
Destruction of the large graving dock there, ( one of the few in the
>
world
> > > that could accomodate a ship the size of the original
Queen Elizabeth ~
> > > and
> > > did, during WW II),
would have been quite a military accomplishment.
> > >
>
> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal Canadian Navy had but
one
> > > obsolete cruiser to defend this facility, and the entire
BC coast.
> > > Fortunately, for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy
quickly sent modern
> ships
> > > to
> > > take
up station and defend against what was feared would be an imminent
>
> > attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate
defences,
> > > the
> > > BC Government secretly
purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
> Navy
> > >
from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra vires' of its
> >
> Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions', it would seem, CAN be
>
> > circumvented
> > > when circumstances warrant it, and
there's a clear indication of public
> > > support. )
> >
>
> > > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came.
The German Pacific
> > > fleet divided, with one small group going
into the Indian Ocean, where
> it
> > > wreaked havoc on
Allied shipping for quite some time. I believe some of
> > > those
German sailors were later captured, and interned as POWs in New
> >
> Zealand. Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back
to
> > > Germany.
> > >
> > > The main
German force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> > >
annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the coast
>
of
> > > Chile. The Royal Navy later turned the tables off the
Falklands, and
> > > removed that menace entirely.
> >
>
> > > I believe the Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol
in the
> > > Mediterranean,
> > > where the Austro-
Hungarian Empire's Navy posed a enemy submarine
> threat
> >
> for some time.
> > >
> > > After the war,
Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
> > >
Royal
> > > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of British
appreciation for his
> > > country's war effort, and that Japan
had achieved a unique status as an
> > > non-white world power. It
must have been somewhat of a slap in the face
> > > when their
alliance was not renewed by Britain a short time later.
> >
>
> > > I think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as
Douglas indicated
> > > in
> > > "The Big Idea", that
the influence of 'International' Finance over
> > > post-war
British policy had a hand in that.
> > >
> > >
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Peter"
<cymric@xtra.co.nz>
> > > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, October 07,
2007 3:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
> >
> > >
> > >> Douglas was explaining the
conflict between the prestege of character
> and
> > >>
the prestege of money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
>
of
> > > the
> > >> latter at the expense of the
former.
> > >> In the early part of the century, I am not sure
if it was pre-world war
> > > one
> > >> or
immediately after that the Bank of England lent such a huge amount
>
of
> > >> credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would
be inevitable that
> > >> in
> > >> the thirties
Japan would have been subject to the banks directions and
> > >
thus
> > >> the policy outside their control- doing the
opposite to what Douglas
> > >> would
> > >>
advise.
> > >> This circmstance may have had an influence of
Japan's decision to go to
> > > war
> > >> upon the
US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
> > >>
Peter
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message
-----
> > >> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> > >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > >> Sent: Sunday, October
07, 2007 12:23 PM
> > >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> "....but gave evidence at
> > >> > countless official
inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> > >> > Canada, New
Zealand and Australia."
> > >> >>
> > >>
> (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas
give
> > >> > evidence to in Japan and Australia?
>
> >> >
> > >> > (Joe replies:-) I think
Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
> better.
> > >>
>
> > >> > The "official enquiries" certainly weren't
"countless". At least not
> > >> > if
> > >>
> we're using "official enquiries" in terms of Douglas's
presentation
> of
> > >> > evidence under that
designation as it applies to the various
> > > Committees
>
> >> > he
> > >> > appeared before in Ottawa,
Alberta, New Zealand, and the MacMillan
> one
> > >> >
we've
> > >> > been discussing most recently. There are
four, by my count.
> > >> >
> > >> > In
Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
>
World
> > >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was attending
in Tokyo, I believe it
> > >> > would
> > >>
> have been more correct to state that he was interviewed by
>
"officials"
> > > of
> > >> > that country's
Finance Ministry.
> > >> >
> > >> > And,
over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
>
of
> > >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
> >
>> >
> > >> > I think this would most likely have
been the nature of any
> "inquiries"
> > > he
> >
>> > received from "officials" during his visit to Australia
also.
> > >> > Doubtless
> > >> > there
must have been "countless" conversations where various
> > >>
> "officials"
> > >> > in
> > >> >
various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
> >
>> > conversation with him over the years.
> > >>
>
> > >> > It is interesting to note that Douglas,
despite his evidence before
> the
> > >> > Alberta
Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he speaks of the
> Japanese
>
> >> > using
> > >> > "the reverse" of his
ideas, still seems to be quite favourably
> disposed
> >
>> > towards the Japanese.
> > >> >
> >
>> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in "The
Big
> > >> > Idea",
> > >> > where he
seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
> British
>
> >> > ally
> > >> > throughout World War One
from start to end, was subjected to a "loss
> of
> > >>
> face" when their alliance was terminated after World War One.
>
> >> >
> > >> > We have not discussed what is
implied in "the reverse" of his ideas,
> as
> > >> >
the
> > >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII
years. Any comments on
> that?
> > >> >
> >
>> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of Douglas's ideas on national
credit
> also
> > >> > implies the "the reverse" of
his philosophy regarding the
> relationship
> > >> >
between the State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >
>> > era?
> > >> >
> > >>
>
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
>> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
> > >>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > >> > Sent:
Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> > >> > Subject:
[socialcredit] question
> > >> >
> > >>
>
> > >> >> The current issue of "The Social Crediter"
contains
> > >> >> this statement from Michael
Rowbotham's book, *The
> > >> >> Grip of Death*:
>
> >> >>
> > >> >> "...Douglas was a
massive political influence in his
> > >> >> day, and a
major figure on the world stage. He not
> > >> >> only
had a world-wide following, but gave evidence at
> > >>
>> countless official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >
>> >> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> > >>
>>
> > >> >> Question: What "official inquiries"
did Douglas give
> > >> >> evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> > >> >>
> > >>
>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
>
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
>
> >> > ________
> > >> >> Shape Yahoo! in
your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> > >> >>
today!
> > >> >
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >
>> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
>
>>
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> >
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