|
Hi John and Peter
While you are both correct in your assessment of the number of troops deflected
from the western front in 1916, I believe that many of these were actually
diverted to Salonika to support the Serbian forces who had fought their way to
that city with a view to being evacuated by the allies. In the event the allies
(illegally) sized the city and created a front line streaching across the Greek
peninsula, and effectively stopped further Central Power incursions southward. I
believe the numbers of allied troops in the enclave amounted to some 800,000,
but I am not sure of the actual figures of British troops involved. It was
refered to jocularily by the Central Powers as " their biggest POW
camp fortunately fed by the British". With respect to Lloyd George it is well
known that he was refered to as " the man who never told the truth", and his
political double dealing and other shinnanigens are legendary. It could be said
that his influence on internal British politics were directly responsible for
the partition of Ireland and the subsequent three quarters of a century of
misrule and trouble in Northern Ireland. I have not really associated him with
the Palestine question, but can well believe it. The other disaster he can be
directly be held responsible for was the Passendale campaign in 1917. Haig
wanted to stop the battle in July when he realised that he would not get
anywhere without accepting horrendous casualties. Lloyd George sent him a secret
despatch telling him that the attack had to continue because of the Mutinies in
the Frech armies after the disasterous Neville offensive in mid 1917. Haig had
to obey his political master who did not allow Haig to stop the attacks until
the winter set in. This campaign led to the vilification of Haig in later life,
and, unfortunately, Haig could not defend himself by quoting the secret
despatch. This was another example of Lloyd George's duplicity. Lloyd-George was
also responsible for several far reaching reforms in Britain most notably the
establishment of Old age pensions and the foundation of the health service with
the formation of "panels" for general practitioners where they were given a fee
for every patient that they treated. He was an enigma
and utterly ruthless in persuing his own aims.
regards
Bill McG
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 9:46
PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
Thanks John, I will trade your second
expletive as well for a good dose of 'quote'.
"Sir William Robertson corroberates: 'Up to
December 1916' ( when Mr Lloyd George becomes Prime Minister ) 'operations
beyond the Suez Canal had been essentially defensive in principle, the
government and the General Staff alike ....recognising the paramount
importance of the struggle in Europe and the need to give the armies there the
utmost support. This unanimity between ministers soldiers did not obtain
after the premiership changed hands....The fundamental difference of opinion
was particularly obstructive in the case of Palestine .....The new War Cabinet
had been in existence only a few days when it directed the general Staff to
examine the possibility of extending the operations in Palestine....The
General Staff put the requirements at three additional divisions and these
could only be obtained from the armies on the Western Front....The General
Staff said the project would prove a great source of emparrassment and
injure our prospects of success in France....These conclusions were
disappointing to Ministers, who wished to see Palestine occupied at once, but
they could not be refuted ....In February the War Cabinet again
approached the Chief of the General Staff, asking what progress was being made
with the preparation of a autumn campaign in Palestine".
These passages show how the course of State and
military operations in war may be "deflected" by political pressure behind the
scenes. In this case, the issue of the battle between the politicians
and the soldier affects the lives of nations at the present time, the
1950's.
Mr Lloyd George then reinforced himself by a move
which once more shows the long thought that must have gone into the
preparation of this enterprise, and the careful slection of "adminstrators",
to support it, that must have gone before. He proposed that the War
Cabinet "take the Dominions into Counsel in a much larger measure than
hitherto in the prosecution of the war". Put in that way, the idea
appealed greatly to the public masses in England. Fighting-men from
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa were campaigning shoulder to
shoulder with their own sons. The immediate response of the overseas
countries to the "old country's" danger had touched the native Briton's heart,
and he was very happy that their leaders should join more closely with his own
in the "prosecuting the war".
However, "the diplomat's word" (and his
intention) differed greatly from his deed; Mr Lloyd George's proposal was
merely a "cover" for bringing to London General Smuts from South Africa,
who was regarded by the Zionists as their most valuable "friend" outside
Europe and America, and General Smuts was brought across to propose the
conquest of Palestine! ( pages
252-253)
(pages 258-259)
" He wrote, " We are feeding over a million
men into the sideshow theatres of war and are letting down our strengths in
France at a moment when all the Boche forces from Russia may be coming against
us.....I am unable to get the support from the editor of The Times that I must
have to rouse the country and I do not think I will be able to go on with him
much longer". ( I discovered Colonel Repington's diaries through
my work on this book and then realised that his experience was identical with
mine, just twenty years later, with the same editor). A month later he
wrote, "In a stormy interview I told Mr Geoffrey Dawson that his subservience
to the War Cabinet during this year was largely the cause of the dangerous
position of our army....I would have nothing more to do with The
Times".
This left one man in England who was able
and willing to publish the truth. Mr H.A. Gwynne, of the Morning Post,
printed Colonel Repington's article, which exposed the weakeing of the French
front on the eve of its attack, without submitting it to the censor. He
and Colonel Repington then were prosecuted, tried and fined ( public opinion
was apparently too much on their side for harsher retribution). Sir
William Robertson wrote to Colonel Repington, "Like yourself, I did what was
best in the general interests of the country and the result has been exactly
what I expected....But the great thing is to keep on a straight course and
then one may be sure that good will eventually come of what may now seem to be
evil".
Thus the two wartime years of Mr Lloyd
George's leadership in England were momentous in their efforts on the present
time, and I believe I have shown how he achieved office and what paramount
purpose he pursued through it. After eighteen months he had overcome all
opposition, diverted a mass of men from France to Palestine, and was
ready at last for the great adventure.
On March 7, 1918 he gave orders for "a
decisive campaign" to conquer all Palestine, and sent General Smuts there to
instruct General Allanby accordingly.
On March 21, 1918 the long-awaited
German attack in France began, embodying all the men, guns and aircraft
released from the Russian front.
The "decisive campaign" in Palestine was
immediately suspended and every man who could be squeezed out of Palestine was
rushed to France. The total number of men emplyed in Palestine was
1,192,511 up to October 1918 ( General Robertson).
On March 27, 1918 Colonel Repington wrote,
"This is the worst defeat in the histroy of the army". By June 6 the
Germans claimed 175,000 prisoners and over 2,000
guns."
The Controversy Of Zion by Douglas Reed
Peter
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 5:21
AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
question
Great stuff, Peter. Can you give references to ptove
these statements? Otherwise they are completely worthless and appear
fanatical.
Regards. John
R.
> From: cymric@xtra.co.nz
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:32:42 +1300
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
question
>
> Douglas has exposed something far more weightier
than an intercepted
> telegram which is consistent with the deals
done over the Palestine
> campaign.
> " In 1917, as the result
of the collapse of Russia from causes which have
> been indicated
elsewhere, Germany was in sight of victory, Rigid financial
>
orthodoxy had strained the credit of the allies to breaking point. As Sir
> Cecil Spring Rice has pointed out in his letters, President Wilson
was
> completely dominated by the German-Jewish group of which Kuhn,
Loeb, the
> Schiffs and Warburgs were the moving spirits and these
had not only done
> everything possible to achieve destruction of
Russia both internally and
> externally, thus depriving the Allies of
the strategic advantage of a double
> front, but had obstructed
British interests in the United States to an
> extent which in any
other circumstances would have amounted to effective
> participation
in the war on the side of Germany. Lord Reading headed a
> delegation
to Washington which resulted in the entry of America, with the
>
co-operation of Kuhn, Loeb, into the war on the side of the Allies and the
> turning of the scale against Germany."
> The Big Idea, pages
47-8.
> The shakers and movers referred to were also big players in
the advent of
> the Federal Reserve six months prior to the
war.
> Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe
Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007
1:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> > Many thanks, Bill (McGonnigle), for the further information. I
> > incorrectly
> > stated that the part of the German
Pacific Fleet (the "Emden") that went
> > into the Indian Ocean was
commanded by Luckner. That should have been, as
> > you stated,
Captain Muller.
> >
> > Luckner, the "Sea Devil",
commanded a merchant raider not attached to the
> > German Pacific
fleet. I believe it was he who was captured and interred
> >
in
> > NZ, though, and later escaped.
> >
> > In
regards to the "Lusitania", it was sunk in 1915, and though it stirred
> > up
> > great animosity in the USA at the time, the
war against Germany was not
> > entered until 1917, after the
Kaiser announced he would use unrestricted
> > submarine warfare in
violation of his committment after the "Lusitania"
> > sinking not
to do so. That and the publication of the "Zimmerman Note",
> >
a
> > diplomatic telegram from Germany's Foreign Minister to the
German
> > Ambassador
> > in Mexico intercepted and
decoded by British Intelligence and passed on to
> > the US
Government was said to have been the deciding factor.
> >
>
> Joe
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
"William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> > To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 09,
2007 12:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>
> >
> >> Amplifying Joe's statement on the German
colonies in the Pacific.
> >> The Asiatic fleet consisted of the
Heavy cruisers Scharhorst and
> >> Gneisenau, and the Light
cruisers Dresden Liepzig, Nurenberg and Emden.
> > The
>
>> Admiral Von Spee commanding that fleet did not attack Canada for
several
> >> reasons. These were:-
> >> The presence
of a powerful Australian fleet including the Battlecruiser
> >>
Australia that would have been a formidable and highly dangerous
>
>> adversary
> >> even for his fleet.
> >> The
ambivalent attitude of the USA who would not permit coaling of his
>
>> fleet in US ports and bases.
> >> The high possibility
of the Japanese fleet blockading his fleet in
> >> TingTsao (The
German Base in China) to prevent interuption of Japanese
> >
trade
> >> with Australia, NZ, the Dutch East Indies and the
French colonies in
> >> IndoChina, even if Japan did not
directly intervene in the war.
> >> The problem of coal supplies
for his fleet considering that nmost of
> >> the
>
>> coaling depots in the Pacific were controlled by British or
American
> >> interests. Only Samoa (a German colony) offered
coaling facilities, and
> >> it
> >> was certain
that this would be attacked and taken by the avaiable British
>
>> and colonial forces at the earliest opportunity.
> >>
These considerations wieghed heavily on the mind of Admiral Von
Spee,
> > and
> >> he decided to head south via Samoa
to go around Cape Horn, and break
> > through
> >> the
Atlantic Blockade using coal supplies shipped to him by the various
>
>> German embassies in the Neutral countries of South America. He came
to
> > grief
> >> when he decided to attack the radio
station on the Faukland Islands
> > unaware
> >> that
Vice Admiral Sturdee with his squadron consisting of the battle
>
>> cruisers Invincible and Inflexible together with 4 light cruises, a
> >> county
> >> class heavy cruiser and the old
battleship Canopus, were in harbour. The
> > end
> >>
result of this confronmtation is well known to any naval historian.
>
>> The Only ship that did not follow this route was the Emden under
the
> >> command of Captain Muller. His commerce raiding
expedition in the Indian
> >> Ocean was a classic. He obtained
his coal from the ships he captured and
> >> then sank. His
mistake was to attempt to destroy the radio station on
> >
Cocos
> >> Island. This station was able to send a distress call
picked up by the
> >> protected cruiser HMAS Sydney. The arrival
of the Sydney ended the Emdens
> >> raiding because this
Australian cruiser outgunned the Emden and was able
> > to
>
>> smash the German raider with little damage to herself. The Emden
was
> >> scuttled on a reef, and her crew interned for the rest
of the war.
> >> regards
> >> Bill
McGunnigle
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> Sent: Monday, October 08,
2007 8:18 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] question
>
>>
> >>
> >> > (Peter wrote:-) "....the
Bank of England lent such a huge amount of
> >> > credit to
Japan that it was kept a secret."
> >> >
> >>
> (Joe replies:-) I don't know about the Bank of England's secret
> >> > lending
> >> > to
> >>
> Japan, Peter, but it's plausible. Japan must have needed
considerable
> >> > international credit to go in the short
time that it did from feudal
> > state
> >> > to a
modern, industrialised country complete with a modern,
> >
well-equipped
> >> > military, I would think.
>
>> >
> >> > There's no question pre-WW I Japan was
quite useful to Britain to have
> > as
> >> >
an
> >> > ally. The Japanese directly checked Russian
military expansionism in
> > the
> >> > Far East and
northern China by being the victors in the Russo-Japanese
> >
War
> >> > in 1905. (With considerable covert British
assistance.) Indirectly,
> > the
> >> > weakening of
Russia would have removed a threat from that direction
> >> >
towards
> >> > British interests in India and Persia
(Iran).
> >> >
> >> > After the outbreak of
war in Europe in 1914 the Japanese were able to
> >> > wrest
control over the 'sphere of influence' that Germany had
> >
established
> >> > in
> >> > China. The
Germans had a substantial millitary prescence there,
> >
including
> >> > a
> >> > powerful fleet of
modern warships. Evidence of the importance the
> > Kaiser
>
>> > attached to what he reportedly stated to be Germany's most
important
> >> > overseas possession. (Quite likely not so
much for what 'goods' China
> >> > could
> >>
> provide Germany, but as a substantial peace-time 'captive' outlet
for
> >> > German manufactured goods.)
> >>
>
> >> > This German Pacific Fleet based in China was
considered to be a prime
> >> > menace
> >> >
to British Columbia, since the British Empire's main ship-repair
>
>> > facilities
> >> > in the entire Pacific were
then located at Esquimalt, outside Victoria,
> >> >
B.C.
> >> > Destruction of the large graving dock there, (
one of the few in the
> > world
> >> > that could
accomodate a ship the size of the original Queen Elizabeth
> >>
> ~
> >> > and
> >> > did, during WW II),
would have been quite a military accomplishment.
> >>
>
> >> > At the outbreak of war in 1914, the Royal
Canadian Navy had but one
> >> > obsolete cruiser to defend
this facility, and the entire BC coast.
> >> > Fortunately,
for us, the Japanese Imperial Navy quickly sent modern
> >
ships
> >> > to
> >> > take up station and
defend against what was feared would be an imminent
> >> >
attack. (Prior to that, to bolster the shamefully inadequate
defences,
> >> > the
> >> > BC Government
secretly purchased two submarines made for the Chilean
> >
Navy
> >> > from their US builders. An act completely 'ultra
vires' of its
> >> > Constitutional powers. 'Constitutions',
it would seem, CAN be
> >> > circumvented
> >>
> when circumstances warrant it, and there's a clear indication of
public
> >> > support. )
> >> >
>
>> > As it turned out, the anticipated attack never came. The
German
> >> > Pacific
> >> > fleet divided,
with one small group going into the Indian Ocean, where
> >
it
> >> > wreaked havoc on Allied shipping for quite some
time. I believe some of
> >> > those German sailors were
later captured, and interned as POWs in New
> >> > Zealand.
Before escaping, I believe, and somehow making it back to
> >>
> Germany.
> >> >
> >> > The main German
force made for home via Cape Horn. Along the way
> >> >
annihilating a Royal Navy task force that intercepted it off the
coast
> > of
> >> > Chile. The Royal Navy later
turned the tables off the Falklands, and
> >> > removed that
menace entirely.
> >> >
> >> > I believe the
Japanese also sent destroyers to patrol in the
> >> >
Mediterranean,
> >> > where the Austro- Hungarian Empire's
Navy posed a enemy submarine
> > threat
> >> > for
some time.
> >> >
> >> > After the war,
Hirohito was an honoured guest of King George V at the
> >> >
Royal
> >> > Family's Balmoral estate, an indication of
British appreciation for his
> >> > country's war effort, and
that Japan had achieved a unique status as an
> >> >
non-white world power. It must have been somewhat of a slap in the
>
>> > face
> >> > when their alliance was not renewed
by Britain a short time later.
> >> >
> >> > I
think it's quite within the realm of possibility, as Douglas
>
>> > indicated
> >> > in
> >> > "The
Big Idea", that the influence of 'International' Finance over
>
>> > post-war British policy had a hand in that.
> >>
>
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message
-----
> >> > From: "Peter" <cymric@xtra.co.nz>
>
>> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >
Sent: Sunday, October 07, 2007 3:54 AM
> >> > Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] question
> >> >
> >> >
>
>> >> Douglas was explaining the conflict between the prestege
of character
> > and
> >> >> the prestege of
money power. Both Japan and Britain were the victims
> > of
>
>> > the
> >> >> latter at the expense of the
former.
> >> >> In the early part of the century, I am not
sure if it was pre-world
> >> >> war
> >>
> one
> >> >> or immediately after that the Bank of
England lent such a huge amount
> > of
> >> >>
credit to Japan that it was kept a secret. It would be inevitable
>
>> >> that
> >> >> in
> >>
>> the thirties Japan would have been subject to the banks directions
and
> >> > thus
> >> >> the policy outside
their control- doing the opposite to what Douglas
> >> >>
would
> >> >> advise.
> >> >> This
circmstance may have had an influence of Japan's decision to go
>
>> >> to
> >> > war
> >> >>
upon the US ( some neutral policy!) cutting off her oil supplies.
>
>> >> Peter
> >> >>
> >> >>
----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Joe Thomson"
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> >> >> To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >> >> Sent: Sunday,
October 07, 2007 12:23 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re:
[socialcredit] question
> >> >>
> >>
>>
> >> >> > "....but gave evidence at
>
>> >> > countless official inquiries in Great Britain,
Japan,
> >> >> > Canada, New Zealand and
Australia."
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> (Bill Ryan:-) Question: What "official inquiries" did Douglas
give
> >> >> > evidence to in Japan and
Australia?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
(Joe replies:-) I think Rowbotham might have phrased that a bit
> >
better.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The
"official enquiries" certainly weren't "countless". At least
>
>> >> > not
> >> >> > if
>
>> >> > we're using "official enquiries" in terms of
Douglas's presentation
> > of
> >> >> >
evidence under that designation as it applies to the various
>
>> > Committees
> >> >> > he
> >>
>> > appeared before in Ottawa, Alberta, New Zealand, and the
MacMillan
> > one
> >> >> > we've
>
>> >> > been discussing most recently. There are four, by my
count.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > In
Japan in 1929, following the presentation of his paper at the
> >
World
> >> >> > Engineering Conference Douglas was
attending in Tokyo, I believe
> >> >> > it
>
>> >> > would
> >> >> > have been more
correct to state that he was interviewed by
> > "officials"
>
>> > of
> >> >> > that country's Finance
Ministry.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And,
over the period of a week apparently, must have answered many
> >
of
> >> >> > their "inquiries" as to his ideas.
>
>> >> >
> >> >> > I think this would
most likely have been the nature of any
> > "inquiries"
>
>> > he
> >> >> > received from "officials"
during his visit to Australia also.
> >> >> >
Doubtless
> >> >> > there must have been "countless"
conversations where various
> >> >> >
"officials"
> >> >> > in
> >> >> >
various places made their own "inquiries" regarding his ideas in
>
>> >> > conversation with him over the years.
>
>> >> >
> >> >> > It is interesting to
note that Douglas, despite his evidence before
> > the
>
>> >> > Alberta Agricultural Committee in 1934 where he
speaks of the
> > Japanese
> >> >> >
using
> >> >> > "the reverse" of his ideas, still seems
to be quite favourably
> > disposed
> >> >> >
towards the Japanese.
> >> >> >
> >>
>> > This is also touched on in his more 'political' writings in
"The Big
> >> >> > Idea",
> >> >>
> where he seems to indicate that Japan, a staunch and effective
>
> British
> >> >> > ally
> >> >>
> throughout World War One from start to end, was subjected to a
"loss
> > of
> >> >> > face" when their
alliance was terminated after World War One.
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > We have not discussed what is implied in
"the reverse" of his ideas,
> > as
> >> >> >
the
> >> >> > Japanese applied them during the pre-WWII
years. Any comments on
> > that?
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > Do you suppose "the reverse" of
Douglas's ideas on national credit
> > also
> >>
>> > implies the "the reverse" of his philosophy regarding
the
> > relationship
> >> >> > between the
State and the individual as regards the Japan of that
> >>
>> > era?
> >> >> >
> >> >>
>
> >> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>
>> >> > From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
>
>> >> > To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> >>
>> > Sent: Saturday, October 06, 2007 10:24 AM
> >>
>> > Subject: [socialcredit] question
> >> >>
>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> The
current issue of "The Social Crediter" contains
> >> >>
>> this statement from Michael Rowbotham's book, *The
> >>
>> >> Grip of Death*:
> >> >> >>
>
>> >> >> "...Douglas was a massive political influence in
his
> >> >> >> day, and a major figure on the world
stage. He not
> >> >> >> only had a world-wide
following, but gave evidence at
> >> >> >> countless
official inquiries in Great Britain, Japan,
> >> >>
>> Canada, New Zealand and Australia."
> >> >>
>>
> >> >> >> Question: What "official
inquiries" did Douglas give
> >> >> >> evidence to
in Japan and Australia?
> >> >> >>
> >>
>> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
>> >
> >> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
>
>> >> > ________
> >> >> >> Shape
Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel
> >>
>> >> today!
> >> >> >
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
> >>
>> >>
> >> >> >>
> >>
>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >> >> >>
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> >> >> >> For more information,
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> >> >> >>
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> >> >>
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> >> >> >
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> >>
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Re: [socialcredit]
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