| Yes, Bill (McGunnigle). Following are my comments re an exchange between Bill Ryan and Peter Challen wherein Bill referred critically to Gary North's anti-Social Credit "diatribe" Social Credit: Salvation through Inflation:
Thanks, Bill. (Attention Peter)
That's right, I bought North's book shortly after it appeared on the market and my impression was that it was intemperate, non-objective and motivated by an almost blind ideological/theological bias against, amounting almost to an outrage at--the prospects of anyone getting "something for nothing." Hence his regard for the Social Credit "consumption credits" with such outright and uncompromising disdain. I was in contact with his office and attempted to introduce some reasoned moderation into the discourse. While being treated politely, I am sure that not the smallest dent was made in the prevailing ideological armour at that location. I believe, Peter, that in a recent communique you stated that interest, per se, was the fundamental fault in the financial system. I would agree with Bill and different Social Credit authors that this is a red herring, unfortunately all too frequently promoted, because it neglects Douglas's discussion of the more basic accountancy flaw related to financial cost creation as this ensues under orthodox finance with the replacement of human labour by non-human capital factors. Interest is just another element in the overall flows of costs and incomes. If suitable corrections to the financial system were implemented the question of consumer debt would cease to be a problem and the burden of interest (or "usury") consequently would no longer be of significance. I think it would be a fatal error, when being pursued by a horse-drawn chariot to attempt to detach the horse while still standing in front of the free-wheeling chariot. Perhaps, Bill, you would like to forward to Peter your comments today to another correspondent, viz., Kristof Levandovski--of Poland, I believe.
Sincerely
Wally
On 26-Nov-07, at 6:03 PM, William Hugh McGunnigle wrote:Hi
Subsequent to the comments by Kristof and Bill Ryan
The observations by Bill are very valid. Much of the present world imbalance in trade is the result of the so called "Free Trade" reforms that are being foisted upon the world by transnational companies. The effect is to move the centres of production away from areas with high production costs due to high labour costs eg North America, Europe and paradoxically Japan into areas where labour costs are considerably less eg China and India. Removal of tarrifs puts countries with high labour costs at a distinct disadvantage. Furthermore a large percentage of the lower labour costs in places like China and India is bought at a considerable environmental price because companies in those countries do not adher to the strict and stringent environmental laws prevalent in places like Europe and parts of North America. There is a hidden problem too in the "deskilling" of the previous world industrial leaders labour force as the industries are moved away. This causes widespread unemployment and this is a harbinger of civil unrest. Unemployment always breeds crime and civil disorder.
Although a many monetary reformers think along the lines that Bill mentions ie abolition of interest etc. This, in itself, does not address the fundamental problem namely that consumption is dependant upon disposable income and the only source of disposable income for the vast bulk of society is salaries and wages. Consequently as the job market shrinks so does income. Fiddling with the banking system and altering the rules will not alter that problem. Similarly the Keyensian solution of deliberate government spending on ( possibly) infrastucture to provide work to enable people to have a living income on a spend now pay later basis only creates a higher degree of indeptedness. The prosperity enjoyed by the Western world since the end of WW2 has been at the expense of Western governments and their people becoming greater and greater deptors. The USA in particular runs the highest level of indeptedness of all. Unfortunately the present system cannot continue without that indeptedness increasing still further due to the facts previously stated by Bill that wages and salaries are always less than optimum industrial output. There will always be a gap between the two ( Prodution Gap)
Social Credit is a viable and effective way of providing the extra finance to bridge the " production gap" and ensure that everyone can benefit from improvements in industrial efficiency. I agree with Bill. The present system of accounting in banking circles is very efficient. It does not need major alterations, although I do baulk at saying it is perfect. Nevertheless it is operating under axioms that operated in the 16th century and not the 21st century, and it does need to be updated so that the financial shortages responsible for so much poverty in the world can be corrected. I trust that my comments have been helpful in the discussion
Bill McGunnigle
----- Original Message ----- From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Request for William B. Ryan
I thought I gave you a serious answer, Kristof. I
certainly didn't intend it to be a joke.
The best financial reform is along the lines of
Douglas' national dividend and retail discount
programs.
I am quite disdainful of most of what passes as
"monetary reform," which generally involves some
fundamental change to the structure of the financial
system, such as the abolition of interest, and/or the
spending of money into circulation exclusively by the
government. The structure of the present financial
system is itself very nearly perfect.
The problem is at the macreconomic level due to a flaw
in accounting, where the costs of production are being
expensed against retail sales at an accelerating rate
in respect to sales, which is explained through the A
+ B theorem, or something similar.
The solution are rationally applied credits from the
central bank to the accounts of final consumers, in a
form of accounting adjustment, boosting effective
demand, bringing the expensing of costs to the point
of retail into proportionality with sales, thereby
sustaining the rate of profit in the dynamically
growing economy, with naturally occurring labor
displacement.
The present continuous fall to the rate of profit
induces entrepreneurs to continually pinch off
production short of real demand and productive
capacity, causing the permanency of poverty in the
midst of plenty through much waste of resources. It
is an illusion of scarcity due to financial
inadequacy.
Beyond that I would suggest a protectionist foreign
trade policy, protecting domestic industry against
predatory foreign competition. The strength of the
American economy was built during the nineteenth
century behind a tariff wall, allowing free trade and
competition between the states, with similar cultures
and standards.
Bill
--- Swieto Radosci <radosc@radosc.x.pl> wrote:
From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>:
> I think I said, Kristof, that I do not call myself
a
> social crediter, but do admit to being profoundly
> influenced by the writings of . I do not
> admit to agreeing with every word that he wrote,
but
> admit to not understanding much of it. One of the
> purposes of this list is to help us gain an
> understanding of what he really wrote and said.
The undrerstanding of what C. H. Douglas wrote or
said is not of my
particular concern. More what today reformists do
with his inspirations and
inuitions.
I agree with Douglas's general idea of the deficit
of purchasing power in
the growing areas of the globe. I calculated that
deficit on real numbers
taken from Polish corporation where I served as CEO
and for sure Douglas was
right showing us this problem comparable to the
unefficiency of heart-pump
in human body. Purchasing power leaks out of
producing communities and
producers are forced to extend specialization and
import-export practicies.
If they don't, they alternatively hang on growing
debt.
Now we have world-blood deficit in many places and
plentitude of it in
others - a zero balance situation from the double
accounting point of view,
but close to heart breake from the social one. I
personally attribute that
deficit of purchasing power to logistic (energetic)
and educational
(informatic, including money as information)
problems of our civilization.
In my opinion local money could serve better than
"retail discount programs"
proposed by Douglas - as local by-passes on global
defficiency in money
distribution.
National dividend is ok but it strongly affects the
way national budget is
created, so it is not easy to implement from
grassroots.
But, William, I asked you about your personal
opinion on Douglas proposals
in present socio-legal environment and you answered
by a joke... Please
answer seriously.
Kristof Levandovski
____________________________________________________________________________________
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