|Subject:||Re: [socialcredit] Re: Request for William B. Ryan|
|Date:||Saturday, December 8, 2007 00:39:13 (+0100)|
|From:||Swieto Radosci <radosc @........pl>
|In reply to:||Message 5124 (written by Wallace Klinck)|
Thank you Wally, for your explanation.
The question intreresting to me is how Social Dividend disappears if not via
repayment of loans, as it happens now when money returns to banks as
repayment of bank loans. Present-day money disappears while repayment occurs
and must be reinjected as new loans to compensate its lost. If not, it
disappears from the market, as it was in early days of crisis of 1920-ties.
Taxes recycle money through governments, not cancel them. So - how Dividend
is going to be withdrawn from the market, after being created not as a debt.
It is huge amount of money - some US& 3,77 trillion pumped every year in US
economy as new loans, being ca 30% of US GDP, according to estimations made
in Richard Cook's articles. And not so much but almost so much disappears
each year from the market as repayment of banking loans.
How will 3,77 trillion Dividend disappear each year to stem inflation?
Accounting adjustments could work but only as adjustments made from banking
profits (diminishing them). Are present US banking profits so high? And are
banking elites going to liquidate them?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wallace Klinck" <email@example.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Request for William B. Ryan
> Kristof, if I might intercede, credit does not necessarily denote debt in
> Social Credit terminology. We recognize two forms of credit, viz., "real
> credit" meaning the actual ability of society to deliver goods and
> services "as, when and where required" and "financial credit" meaning the
> ability to deliver money "as, when and where required." The two should
> match. C. H. Douglas, founder of Social Credit, formalized in his "A + B
> Theorem" an explanation of how the normal operation of the existing
> price-system leads to a rate of flow of financial prices emanating from
> industry which increasingly exceeds the rate of flow of effective
> consumer incomes. This growing disparity is to be compensated by new
> consumer credits which are non- repayable by the recipient consumers and
> would be made available to all citizens in the form of a National
> (Consumer) Dividend and what Douglas referred to as the Compensated
> Price, the latter being also an issue of non-repayable consumer credits
> to businesses at point of retail on condition that retail price be
> lowered. These new consumer credits are to be created by an appropriate
> statistical institution, e.g., a branch of the Treasury or a National
> Credit Office and paid from a National Credit Account which would be a
> statistical record of all the nations real assets--anything which could
> become a cost of production. The payment of the Dividend and Compensated
> Price would be drawn on the National Credit Account and as an item of
> consumption would diminish it. The National Credit Account would be
> increased by the addition of all new capital assets and would be growing
> more rapidly than deductions from it. Today, the widening disparity
> between prices and incomes is "bridged" in a haphazard manner by new
> credits issued as ever increasing debt to the banking system. While this
> new "money" issued as debt allows consumer access to a large part of
> production, it does not cancel the financial costs of production but
> merely passes them on as inflationary charges to be recovered from future
> cycles of production--even though the actual physical costs of each
> production cycle have fully been met when consumer goods are completed in
> final form for use by the consumer. The Social Credit consumer credits
> will be cancelled as purchasing-power when the retailer pays his
> production loan just as are the credits issued as debt today via bank
> loans are cancelled. I will send you some documentation in PDF format
> which may be of assistance to you in understanding the Social Credit
> position. Essentially, under the existing orthodox financial regime the
> consumer is charged, quite properly, with capital depreciation--but quite
> wrongly not credited with capital appreciation. Over to Bill who may
> have his own comments to make on the subject.
> On 6-Dec-07, at 2:23 PM, Swieto Radosci wrote:
>> Thanks, Bill, for your kind reply.
>> Could you explain what you mean by "accounting adjustments by rationally
>> applied credits from the
>> central bank to the accounts of final consumers". Is that credit
>> interest bearing and who is going to get it - all citizens or fraction
>> of them. Is it repayable?
>> If not repayable - is that non-repayment called " accounting
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>> To: <email@example.com>
>> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 8:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Request for William B. Ryan
>>> I thought I gave you a serious answer, Kristof. I
>>> certainly didn't intend it to be a joke.
>>> The best financial reform is along the lines of
>>> Douglas' national dividend and retail discount
>>> I am quite disdainful of most of what passes as
>>> "monetary reform," which generally involves some
>>> fundamental change to the structure of the financial
>>> system, such as the abolition of interest, and/or the
>>> spending of money into circulation exclusively by the
>>> government. The structure of the present financial
>>> system is itself very nearly perfect.
>>> The problem is at the macreconomic level due to a flaw
>>> in accounting, where the costs of production are being
>>> expensed against retail sales at an accelerating rate
>>> in respect to sales, which is explained through the A
>>> + B theorem, or something similar.
>>> The solution are , in a
>>> form of accounting adjustment, boosting effective
>>> demand, bringing the expensing of costs to the point
>>> of retail into proportionality with sales, thereby
>>> sustaining the rate of profit in the dynamically
>>> growing economy, with naturally occurring labor
>>> The present continuous fall to the rate of profit
>>> induces entrepreneurs to continually pinch off
>>> production short of real demand and productive
>>> capacity, causing the permanency of poverty in the
>>> midst of plenty through much waste of resources. It
>>> is an illusion of scarcity due to financial
>>> Beyond that I would suggest a protectionist foreign
>>> trade policy, protecting domestic industry against
>>> predatory foreign competition. The strength of the
>>> American economy was built during the nineteenth
>>> century behind a tariff wall, allowing free trade and
>>> competition between the states, with similar cultures
>>> and standards.
>>> --- Swieto Radosci <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>>>> From: <email@example.com>:
>>>> > I think I said, Kristof, that I do not call myself
>>>> > social crediter, but do admit to being profoundly
>>>> > influenced by the writings of . I do not
>>>> > admit to agreeing with every word that he wrote,
>>>> > admit to not understanding much of it. One of the
>>>> > purposes of this list is to help us gain an
>>>> > understanding of what he really wrote and said.
>>>> The undrerstanding of what C. H. Douglas wrote or
>>>> said is not of my
>>>> particular concern. More what today reformists do
>>>> with his inspirations and
>>>> I agree with Douglas's general idea of the deficit
>>>> of purchasing power in
>>>> the growing areas of the globe. I calculated that
>>>> deficit on real numbers
>>>> taken from Polish corporation where I served as CEO
>>>> and for sure Douglas was
>>>> right showing us this problem comparable to the
>>>> unefficiency of heart-pump
>>>> in human body. Purchasing power leaks out of
>>>> producing communities and
>>>> producers are forced to extend specialization and
>>>> import-export practicies.
>>>> If they don't, they alternatively hang on growing
>>>> Now we have world-blood deficit in many places and
>>>> plentitude of it in
>>>> others - a zero balance situation from the double
>>>> accounting point of view,
>>>> but close to heart breake from the social one. I
>>>> personally attribute that
>>>> deficit of purchasing power to logistic (energetic)
>>>> and educational
>>>> (informatic, including money as information)
>>>> problems of our civilization.
>>>> In my opinion local money could serve better than
>>>> "retail discount programs"
>>>> proposed by Douglas - as local by-passes on global
>>>> defficiency in money
>>>> National dividend is ok but it strongly affects the
>>>> way national budget is
>>>> created, so it is not easy to implement from
>>>> But, William, I asked you about your personal
>>>> opinion on Douglas proposals
>>>> in present socio-legal environment and you answered
>>>> by a joke... Please
>>>> answer seriously.
>>>> Kristof Levandovski
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