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Subject:RE: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook
Date:Wednesday, December 19, 2007  20:48:32 (+0000)
From:John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
In reply to:Message 5147 (written by Joe Thomson)

Thanks Joe.
The first parts remain theory either way for me and I keep an open mind until someone comes out with hard facts.
But your comment on NZ is wrong. There was no debt attached to the use of Reserve Bank credit for Government operations. It was new money issued for the purpose, non-repayable. For local bodies and the Dairy industry, yes, you are right.  But the interest charged was only 1% and the finance probably would not have been available elsewhere. Making this repayable meant that more could be issued as it was returned, or alternatively made the debt bearable if it was not. . This distinction is in accord with our present party policy here.
I notice Richard has not replied to your comment on inflation, so try this translation.  "No more inflationary than any other issue of new money from any source." That would, of course, include money issued by a Credit Authority as per Douglas recommendation.
The issue over government use of new money has nothing whatever to do with (demand pull) inflation. If it is confined to the amounts needed to balance the prices of goods, there should be none under either system.  The critical point is that, in a dictatorship, Government spends all new money into circulation and therefore determines what shall be produced.  We saw that in Soviet Russia., and to some extent in Nazi Germany, both of which seem to have operated a form of monetary reform.  In a democracy, the public would be given at least some of the new money to spend into circulation so that they get to determine what goods shall be produced per economic democracy.  However, in the modern high taxation state, it would be ridiculous to pass all new money to the public and then simply tax a large proportion back from them before it could be spent.
It is a pity if great ideas are made ridiculous by slavish adherence to totally impractical concepts  
Regards.   John R.



Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:03:47 -0500
From: thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook

 
 
(John Rawson wrote:-)  So the whole reform constitutional argument is based on the clause "To coin money"?  It could be claimed logically that, since coinage was the only form of money then, this was intended to cover all money?
 
(Joe replies:-)  But it wasn't the only form of 'money' then, John. 
 
(John Rawson:-)  I note again your reaction to the Guernsey story, but you have never given hard facts for your attitude.  So far there appears to be more evidence for this event than against.
 
(Joe replies:-)  That story was thoroughly vetted on here, or the predecessor list, quite some time ago.  The ''States Notes", if I recall correctly from what was determined in examining the issue then, were redeemed by import duties.  They weren't 'debt-free' money.
 
(John Rawson:-)  After all, why should anyone invent such a happening in such an unusual place otherwise?
 
(Joe replies:-)  There was a lot of propaganda put forth by various 'monetary reformers', John.  BC's own G. G McGeer, a former Vancouver Mayor, who was later a MLA, a MP, and finally a Senator, was one latter day one.  He was aided and abetted by still others who'd previously created 'facts' out of fiction to further their own ends.   The myth might grow and grow, but it's still myth.

(John Rawson wrote:-)  And would you argue that the actions of New Zealand's first Labour Government in funding much of infrastructure, state housing for homeless, and the dairy industry with Reserve Bank credit at 1% is a myth?
 
(Joe replies:-)  They 'primed the pump' with deficit financing.  That's all they did.  It relieved unemployment, and stopped the deflationary spiral  that you were in. 
 
 In a deflation it's hard to sell anything other than essentials, for why would you want to buy anything today if you felt you could get it cheaper tomorrow?  And when prices have to be lowered below financial cost to move existing product, there's no inducement to produce any more. 
 
 So your government turned that around, and when prices started to come up,  then there's an inducement to buy before they go higher.  It's a quick fix, but it doesn't really solve the problem.  And when it's carried on for any length of time you'll get an 'inflation' that'll negate its benefits.  It is a crummy substitute for Social Credit properly applied.
 
 
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