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Hi Wallace
Thanks for your endorsement of my comments. I will send them to Peter, but do
not have an e-mail address for Kristof. I have posted the comments on elistas
and, hopefully, he will see them from that source. I am still having trouble
accessing some of the e-mails not placed on my "white list". This is wonderful
when the e-mails are spam rubbish, but annoying when I am trying to establish a
discourse with a new person over the internet. Generally I can get John Rawson
to post them on to me through his computer.
Incidently what are your views
on inflationary pressures? I am not convinced that all inflation is a bad
thing. Provided that incomes keep pace with inflationary pressures, in the long
term, debts, like mortgages, become a progressively smaller and smaller
percentage of your disposable income, and disposable income is the driving force
behind consumer spending. Thus, over time, your ability to "consume" must
increase, and this will alleviate some of the problems involved in the
"production gap". The only loser here appears to
be the "lender" ie the banking system. I have noticed that it is the banking
fraternity that makes the biggest noise about keeping inflation down. Do you
feel that this is significant?
I do feel that, given the way our
present banking system operates, that prosperity for all relies on constant slow
inflation under that system. Bankers of course would always baulk at any process
that systematically removes from them the ability to control currency issue to
their disadvantage. Inflationary pressures do exactly that. Is my reasoning
faulty? I have met with mixed reception to the idea that some inflation is a
good thing under the present financial operators. Are we being brainwashed by
the financial operators into thinking that inflation is bad? Would appreciate
your comments? I believe that curbing inflation in our present financial climate
is financial sucide, and certain to cause international trade stagnation. I am
far from certain about these conclusions because they appear to be totally
contary to all that is presently taught about financial management. However the
present system does have major drawbacks many of which revolve around the money
supply which of course is directly involved in inflationary
pressures.
regards
Bill McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 9:50
PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Request
for William B. Ryan
Yes, Bill (McGunnigle). Following are my comments re an
exchange between Bill Ryan and Peter Challen wherein Bill referred critically
to Gary North's anti-Social Credit "diatribe" Social Credit:
Salvation through Inflation:
Thanks, Bill. (Attention Peter)
That's right, I
bought North's book shortly after it appeared on the market and my impression
was that it was intemperate, non-objective and motivated by an almost blind
ideological/theological bias against, amounting almost to an outrage at--the
prospects of anyone getting "something for nothing." Hence his regard
for the Social Credit "consumption credits" with such outright and
uncompromising disdain. I was in contact with his office and attempted
to introduce some reasoned moderation into the discourse. While being
treated politely, I am sure that not the smallest dent was made in the
prevailing ideological armour at that location. I believe, Peter, that
in a recent communique you stated that interest, per se, was the fundamental
fault in the financial system. I would agree with Bill and different
Social Credit authors that this is a red herring, unfortunately all too
frequently promoted, because it neglects Douglas's discussion of the more
basic accountancy flaw related to financial cost creation as this ensues under
orthodox finance with the replacement of human labour by non-human capital
factors. Interest is just another element in the overall flows of costs
and incomes. If suitable corrections to the financial system were
implemented the question of consumer debt would cease to be a problem and the
burden of interest (or "usury") consequently would no longer be of
significance. I think it would be a fatal error, when being pursued by a
horse-drawn chariot to attempt to detach the horse while still standing in
front of the free-wheeling chariot. Perhaps, Bill, you would like to
forward to Peter your comments today to another correspondent, viz., Kristof
Levandovski--of Poland, I believe.
Sincerely
Wally
On
26-Nov-07, at 6:03 PM, William Hugh McGunnigle
wrote:
Hi
Subsequent to the comments
by Kristof and Bill Ryan
The observations by Bill
are very valid. Much of the present world imbalance in trade is the result
of the so called "Free Trade" reforms that are being foisted upon the world
by transnational companies. The effect is to move the centres of production
away from areas with high production costs due to high labour costs eg North
America, Europe and paradoxically Japan into areas where labour costs are
considerably less eg China and India. Removal of tarrifs puts countries with
high labour costs at a distinct disadvantage. Furthermore a large percentage
of the lower labour costs in places like China and India is bought at a
considerable environmental price because companies in those countries do not
adher to the strict and stringent environmental laws prevalent in places
like Europe and parts of North America. There is a hidden problem too in the
"deskilling" of the previous world industrial leaders labour force as the
industries are moved away. This causes widespread unemployment and this is a
harbinger of civil unrest. Unemployment always breeds crime and civil
disorder.
Although a many monetary reformers
think along the lines that Bill mentions ie abolition of interest etc. This,
in itself, does not address the fundamental problem namely that consumption
is dependant upon disposable income and the only source of disposable income
for the vast bulk of society is salaries and wages. Consequently as the job
market shrinks so does income. Fiddling with the banking system and altering
the rules will not alter that problem. Similarly the Keyensian solution of
deliberate government spending on ( possibly) infrastucture to provide work
to enable people to have a living income on a spend now pay later basis only
creates a higher degree of indeptedness. The prosperity enjoyed by the
Western world since the end of WW2 has been at the expense of Western
governments and their people becoming greater and greater deptors. The USA
in particular runs the highest level of indeptedness of all. Unfortunately
the present system cannot continue without that indeptedness increasing
still further due to the facts previously stated by Bill that wages and
salaries are always less than optimum industrial output. There will always
be a gap between the two ( Prodution Gap)
Social
Credit is a viable and effective way of providing the extra finance to
bridge the " production gap" and ensure that everyone can benefit from
improvements in industrial efficiency. I agree with Bill. The present system
of accounting in banking circles is very efficient. It does not need major
alterations, although I do baulk at saying it is perfect. Nevertheless it is
operating under axioms that operated in the 16th century and not the 21st
century, and it does need to be updated so that the financial shortages
responsible for so much poverty in the world can be corrected. I trust that
my comments have been helpful in the discussion
Bill
McGunnigle
----- Original Message ----- From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
To:
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent:
Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re:
Request for William B. Ryan
I thought I gave you a serious answer, Kristof.
I
certainly didn't intend it to be a
joke.
The best financial reform is along the lines
of
Douglas' national dividend and retail
discount
programs.
I am quite disdainful of most of what passes
as
"monetary reform," which generally involves
some
fundamental change to the structure of the
financial
system, such as the abolition of interest, and/or
the
spending of money into circulation exclusively by
the
government. The structure of the present
financial
system is itself very nearly
perfect.
The problem is at the macreconomic level due to a
flaw
in accounting, where the costs of production are
being
expensed against retail sales at an accelerating
rate
in respect to sales, which is explained through
the A
+ B theorem, or something similar.
The solution are rationally applied credits from
the
central bank to the accounts of final consumers,
in a
form of accounting adjustment, boosting
effective
demand, bringing the expensing of costs to the
point
of retail into proportionality with sales,
thereby
sustaining the rate of profit in the
dynamically
growing economy, with naturally occurring
labor
displacement.
The present continuous fall to the rate of
profit
induces entrepreneurs to continually pinch
off
production short of real demand and
productive
capacity, causing the permanency of poverty in
the
midst of plenty through much waste of resources.
It
is an illusion of scarcity due to
financial
inadequacy.
Beyond that I would suggest a protectionist
foreign
trade policy, protecting domestic industry
against
predatory foreign competition. The strength
of the
American economy was built during the
nineteenth
century behind a tariff wall, allowing free trade
and
competition between the states, with similar
cultures
and standards.
Bill
--- Swieto Radosci <radosc@radosc.x.pl>
wrote:
From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>:
> I think I said, Kristof, that I do not call
myself
a
> social crediter, but do admit to being
profoundly
> influenced by the writings of . I do
not
> admit to agreeing with every word that he
wrote,
but
> admit to not understanding much of it.
One of the
> purposes of this list is to help us gain
an
> understanding of what he really wrote and
said.
The undrerstanding of what C. H. Douglas wrote
or
said is not of my
particular concern. More what today reformists
do
with his inspirations
and
inuitions.
I agree with Douglas's general idea of the
deficit
of purchasing power in
the growing areas of the globe. I calculated
that
deficit on real
numbers
taken from Polish corporation where I served as
CEO
and for sure Douglas
was
right showing us this problem comparable to
the
unefficiency of
heart-pump
in human body. Purchasing power leaks out
of
producing communities
and
producers are forced to extend specialization
and
import-export
practicies.
If they don't, they alternatively hang on
growing
debt.
Now we have world-blood deficit in many places
and
plentitude of it in
others - a zero balance situation from the
double
accounting point of
view,
but close to heart breake from the social one.
I
personally attribute
that
deficit of purchasing power to logistic
(energetic)
and educational
(informatic, including money as
information)
problems of our
civilization.
In my opinion local money could serve better
than
"retail discount
programs"
proposed by Douglas - as local by-passes on
global
defficiency in money
distribution.
National dividend is ok but it strongly affects
the
way national budget is
created, so it is not easy to implement
from
grassroots.
But, William, I asked you about your
personal
opinion on Douglas
proposals
in present socio-legal environment and you
answered
by a joke... Please
answer seriously.
Kristof Levandovski
____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home
page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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