| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook | | Date: | Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:16:44 (-0700) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <jmartinh @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5154 (written by Joe Thomson) |
Hi, Joe -
What you talk about reminds me so much of when the BC Social Credit Party
started going for the Kelso Plan, and, of course, the Mannings in Alberta
started thinking in terms of "political realignment" - on the basis that
Provincially, monetary reform was not a possibility.
I find myself going back to Chapter I of the "Protocols of Zion" - that
democracy inevitably over time degenerates into mob rule, governed by the
"force and make believe" of those behind the scenes. Pericles ends up with
Cleon, or Peter Lougheed with Ralph Klein.
That still leaves us with the problem of getting Social Credit ideas
adopted, which may best be done by getting the public as a whole to
understand what is going on. I see some hope in a growing concern for the
environment, in the Internet as a (so far) uncensored way of mass
communication, and in the very obvious troubles of the banking industry at
the present time over credit defaults.
What I feel Social Credit doesn't have at the present time is a clear and
brief (sorry, Wally) explanation of what is wrong, and what might be done
about it, and from that angle, I believe Richard Cook is making some very
valuable contributions.
Martin Hattersley, 5929-189 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
Phone (780) 483-5442
e-mail <jmartinh@shaw.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook
Thanks, Martin. I wouldn't expect "any experiments that have taken place
before Douglas to be able to make use of his techniques." That would be
expecting too much, indeed. But what about after Douglas?
In looking for something else, I came across this passage from Douglas in
"The Development of World Dominion". It's numbered 120, on page 98 of that
book, and dated, Dec. 17, 1949. Which is when I believe it first appeared
in TSC. It states:-
"Probably not many of our readers see Mr. Manning's paper "The Canadian
Social Crediter", but for the benefit of those overseas who do we may issue
a note of warning against the technical inaccuracies which are beginning to
reinforce its politics. For instance, the Keynesian fallacy adopted by Mr.
Vincent Vickers that "spending new money into existence" is a cure for the
flaw in the price system is being rather subtly substituted for the
application of new money to the reduction of prices AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE.
" "Time" is one of those subjects that seems to offer great difficulties to
most people, but it does not appear too much to ask for the consideration of
the difference between, say, paying out new money for a hydro-electric
scheme which will "sell" nothing for five years, and paying out the same
amount of money to reduce the cost of power.
" Of course, the international finance groups have no objection whatsoever
to the former course ~ it is almost as good a method of raising prices and
promoting loans as having a good war.
"The most charitable, and probably in the main, correct explanation of the
disappearance of everything but the name of Social Credit from the Alberta
Government is that its executives have entirely "lost the thread of the
story"; that beyond wishing to retain office, they have no policy."
I find that passage quite interesting, in that aside from any differences
between the ASCP and Douglas, he states quite clearly that "spending new
money into existence" as many so-called 'Social Credit' Parties, and others,
have advocated and still advocate, "as a cure for the flaw in the price
system" is a Keynesian fallacy. Do you think it's a 'fallacy', Martin, or
was Douglas all wrong?
Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Hattersley" <jmartinh@shaw.ca>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook
> Joe -
> For a precedent that I think holds water, look at the Giro of Venice,
which
> lasted for 600 years using nothing but "money of account", which actually
> kept its value better than gold. The Venice of the middle ages was one of
> the great trading cities of the world.
>
> I think it's a bit much to expect any experiments that have taken place
> before Douglas to be able to make use of his techniques. All that we can
> claim for them is that, even if not perfect, they were a better way of
> handling the money supply situation that what we "enjoy" at the present
> time.
>
> Martin Hattersley, 5929-189 St.,
> EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
> Phone (780) 483-5442
> e-mail <jmartinh@shaw.ca>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Thomson" <thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 6:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Article by Richard Cook
>
>
>
>
> (John Rawson wrote:-) So the whole reform constitutional argument is
> based on the clause "To coin money"? It could be claimed logically that,
> since coinage was the only form of money then, this was intended to cover
> all money?
>
> (Joe replies:-) But it wasn't the only form of 'money' then, John.
>
> (John Rawson:-) I note again your reaction to the Guernsey story, but
you
> have never given hard facts for your attitude. So far there appears to be
> more evidence for this event than against.
>
> (Joe replies:-) That story was thoroughly vetted on here, or the
> predecessor list, quite some time ago. The ''States Notes", if I recall
> correctly from what was determined in examining the issue then, were
> redeemed by import duties. They weren't 'debt-free' money.
>
> (John Rawson:-) After all, why should anyone invent such a happening in
> such an unusual place otherwise?
>
> (Joe replies:-) There was a lot of propaganda put forth by various
> 'monetary reformers', John. BC's own G. G McGeer, a former Vancouver
Mayor,
> who was later a MLA, a MP, and finally a Senator, was one latter day one.
> He was aided and abetted by still others who'd previously created 'facts'
> out of fiction to further their own ends. The myth might grow and grow,
> but it's still myth.
>
> (John Rawson wrote:-) And would you argue that the actions of New
> Zealand's first Labour Government in funding much of infrastructure, state
> housing for homeless, and the dairy industry with Reserve Bank credit at
1%
> is a myth?
>
> (Joe replies:-) They 'primed the pump' with deficit financing. That's
> all they did. It relieved unemployment, and stopped the deflationary
spiral
> that you were in.
>
> In a deflation it's hard to sell anything other than essentials, for
why
> would you want to buy anything today if you felt you could get it cheaper
> tomorrow? And when prices have to be lowered below financial cost to move
> existing product, there's no inducement to produce any more.
>
> So your government turned that around, and when prices started to come
> up, then there's an inducement to buy before they go higher. It's a
quick
> fix, but it doesn't really solve the problem. And when it's carried on
for
> any length of time you'll get an 'inflation' that'll negate its benefits.
> It is a crummy substitute for Social Credit properly applied.
>
>
>
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