eListas Logo
   The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net
      HOME    SERVICES    SOLUTIONS    COMPANY    
Home > My Lists > socialcredit > Messages

 Message Index 
 Messages from 5143 to 5202 
SubjectFrom
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
RE: Re: Article by John G R
Re: Re: Article by Martin H
Re: Re: Article by Martin H
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
RE: Re: Article by John G R
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by William
Re: Re: Article by Wallace
Re: John Rawson's Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by Martin H
Re: Re: Article by Martin H
RE: Re: Article by John G R
RE: John Rawson's John G R
Re: John Rawson's Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by William
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
RE: John Rawson's John G R
RE: Re: Article by John G R
RE: Re: Article by John G R
Re: John Rawson's Martin H
Re: John Rawson's Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by William
RE: John Rawson's John G R
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: John Rawson's Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by William
Newly scanned docu Wallace
Re: John Rawson's Martin H
Re: Re: Article by Joe Thom
Re: Re: Article by Martin H
Food For Thought Joe Thom
Re: Food For Thoug William
Re: Food For Thoug Joe Thom
Re: Fwd: Banking a william_
Re: Fwd: Banking a Wallace
Re: Re: Fwd: Banki Joe Thom
RE: Re: Fwd: Banki Alasdair
Re: Re: Fwd: Banki Wallace
Letter published b Wallace
Re: Fwd: Banking a Wallace
Re: Letter publish William
Re: Fwd: Banking a william_
Re: Fwd: Banking a Joe Thom
Re: Fwd: Banking a Martin H
Re: Fwd: Banking a Joe Thom
Re: Fwd: Banking a Joe Thom
Re: Fwd: Banking a Wallace
Regarding "interes Myro Ash
Re: Re: Fwd: Banki William
Re: Fwd: Banking a Joe Thom
RE: Regarding "int John G R
The Truth: Recessi Eric Enc
Re: Replying to Pe Myro Ash
RE: Re: Replying t John G R
RE: Regarding "int John G R
RE: Re: Replying t Myro Ash
 << Prev. 60 | Next 60 >>
 
socialcredit
Main page    Messages | Post | Files | Database | Polls | Events | My Preferences
Message 5180     < Previous | Next >
Reply to this message
Subject:RE: [socialcredit] John Rawson's Questions
Date:Sunday, December 23, 2007  18:53:54 (+0000)
From:John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
In reply to:Message 5177 (written by Joe Thomson)

Joe, if people can buy all goods available, how does competition work? Or do we have to postulate a system where there in NEARLY enough purchasing power, so that inferior goods remain unsold and competition does occur?
Frankly, I don't think all this has been fully thought through, and that is why so many put forward the controlled "just price" version.
And would you like to get into public debate on an idea like this that can only be defended by saying "Yes, it will work" without explaining how?  Not for me.  I like to attack the enemy, not defend.
Regards.     John R.



Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:59:19 -0500
From: thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] John Rawson's Questions

Hi John,
 
Well, I don't really see how there couldn't be competition, the same as there is now.   Because the discount doesn't increase anyone's purchasing power until AFTER the sale has been made.  No one gets any money from it  unless something sells first.  And that would be true in the application  of either of the two mechanisms cited. 
 
Now if you contrast that with having your Government, or its Reserve Bank,  ''spend money into circulation for infrastructure" to try to bridge the 'gap', you don't get an increase in the purchasing power of each dollar that way, you simply get access to more dollars.  It's not in any way tied to a reduction in consumer goods prices.  And that increase in the number of dollars will most likely raise prices of consumables.
 
Under the CPD the merchant does still have to compete for sales, same as now.  He has fixed costs which go on month by month whether he sells anything or not.  And his only source of revenue to meet these expenses is from sales.  He competes, or he loses out.
 
Regards,
Joe
 
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:51 PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] John Rawson's Questions

Thanks, Joe.  OK, we're down to the crunch point.  Competition, you say, will apply.  I say it won't and never has in times of sufficient purchasing power to buy all goods available.  Next question: how can we find out who's right?!!
Happh New Year too.
John R.



Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:59:07 -0500
From: thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] John Rawson's Questions

Hi John,
 
I'll add some comments below yours below.
(John Rawson wrote:-)  Gotcha, my friend.  You have added to the confusion on this issue.  Somewhere we read that the buyer will get a discount back after the purchase. Here you say the retailer's prices will be lower if he works the scheme because he gets the payment. (Which is obviously the way to go if it is to be used.)
 
(Joe replies:-)  These are two possible separate 'mechanisms' of applying the CPD.  Either one would work, and there are some obvious advantages to both.  The effect though is the same, whichever method is chosen.  The customer gets the goods at a discount.  The merchant gets his Sales revenue from two sources instead of one. 
 
The whole scheme had been clouded by mystic statements, with nobody prepared to state plainly, step by step, how it would work.
However, I take it we have established firmly that it will not be a "just price" scheme, contingent on prices not rising.
 
(Joe replies:-) Well, I think it is a 'just price' scheme.  Only you have to look at it 'macro-economically', as it applies to the whole economy over  whatever time  period is chosen. 
 
That concept has been around as long as I can remember, and I wonder where this traditional SC term comes in if not here.
(Joe replies:-) It comes in from a passage in ''Economic Democracy'' where Douglas is describing the relative merits of  "Medievalism" to a modern Industrialised economy.  In pre-Industrial Revolution times a far greater percentage of the cost of any article was current labor cost.  And more fully  available to the craftsman at the end of the process when his product sold to "..buy more raw material and the product of other men's labour."   
 
There was not the 'lengthening and broadening' of the structure of production, labor displacement, allocation of costs into price, etc..   Which came with Industrialism, and an economy powered by energy sources other than human muscle.  The 'just price', in Medieval times, was the price that  articles could sell for, and what they could sell for was the 'just price'.  That is the advantage we lost 'financially' with modernization, and what the CPD would help restore.

But you have not countered my assertion of the danger of price rises in an economy where all goods etc. can be sold, as opposed to the present one that forces srtong competition.
 All you have done is give an opinion to the contrary without underlying reasons.
 
(Joe replies:-) I don't really see what you're getting at.  You'd have more problems that way if your government  'spent money into circulation' for infrastructure, I think. 
 
There is still going to be competition for sales, and price will play a large role, as it does now, in determining who'll get the business.  The price is not 'controlled' rigidly.  The merchant sets it, each one independently using whatever criteria he takes into account, just as now.  The discount does not apply unless the price is lowered. And it will be lowered.
 
 One thing we would not want though, I think, anyways, would be to have  large merchants who already do a high volume of business at a very low profit margin,  try to use the CPD to help 'predatory price' their smaller competitors out of business.  But there are certainly safeguards available that could be used to prevent that from happening.

Our present experience in this country shows that demand inflation is possible in one sector even now, in our case housing. While concurrently we have an increasing number of hungry people.  Yes, here.
 
(Joe replies:-) We've had a tremendous run up in housing prices here, too.  And an increasing number of hungry people, even amongst many who are working.  But simply cannot meet the cost of living for adequate necessities, no matter how hard they try to 'economise'.  All the more reason for a CPD, I think.

And all the best for the festive season to ye!
 
Same to you, John!
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at 
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium 
You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com 
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit 





Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger
--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at 
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium 
You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca 
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit 



--------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at 
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium 
You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com 
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit 





Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger

Services:  HomeList Hosting ServicesIndustry Solutions
Your Account:  Sign UpMy ListsMy PreferencesStart a List
General:  About UsNewsPrivacy PolicyNo spamContact Us

eListas Seal
eListas is a registered trademark of eListas Networks S.L.
Copyright © 1999-2006 AR Networks, All Rights Reserved
Terms of Service