|Subject:||[socialcredit] Regarding "interest" and "usury"|
|Date:||Tuesday, January 15, 2008 09:13:04 (-0800)|
|From:||Myro Ashenopolitus <new_economics @.....com>
Unfortunately, Peter, there are some whoppers from
both Shakespeare and Yaseen in the first half of the
program that will turn off educated and open minded
people to the proposed solutions.
For example, Shakespeare's assertion that "one of the
problems of creating out of nothing is that it creates
enough money for the principal of the loan but not
enough for the interest."
And Yaseen's assertion that "the Quran condemns
categorically usury, or interest."
First, to address Shakespeare's assertion:
We say that banks create money because they credit
deposit accounts when they create loans. The ability
and propensity to transfer deposit balances from
person to person in transactions is what makes deposit
accounts effectively money in today's economy. So,
when loans are granted, money is being created. And,
when loans are repaid, together with interest, money
is being canceled.
But there is a reciprocal monetary flow from the banks
when they make payments for ordinary business
expenses, salaries and wages to their employees,
dividends to their stockholders, etc., where they also
credit deposit account balances, which is additional
to loans in the creation of money. This puts money
into circulation not deriving from loans that is
available to pay interest to the banks in payment for
financial services rendered.
Now, to Yaseen's assertion:
The ancient scriptures originally written in Semitic
languages used two words that were erroneously
translated or interpreted as "usury."
A modern Islamic scholar in the United States writes
"The Quran forbids usury, not interest. Quite a few
states in USA have laws against usury. Usury is
defined as excessive interest. A Dictionary defines
usury as 'an excessive or inordinate premium for the
use of money borrowed', 'extortionate interest', or
'the practice of taking exorbitant or excessive
interest.' The Arabic language also makes distinction
between interest (Fa'eda) and usury (Reba). The Quran
forbids Reba or usury."
Which is perfectly consistent with the modern Jewish
and Christian perspectives on the matter:
"John Calvin's letter on usury of 1545 made it clear
that when Christ said 'lend hoping for nothing in
return,' He meant that we should help the poor freely.
Following the rule of equity, we should judge people
by their circumstances, not by legal definitions.
Humanist that he was, Calvin knew there were two
Hebrew words translated as 'usury.' One, neshek, meant
'to bite'; the other, tarbit, meant 'to take
legitimate increase.' Based on these distinctions,
Calvin argued that only 'biting' loans were forbidden.
Thus, one could lend at interest to business people
who would make a profit using the money. To the
working poor one could lend without interest, but
expect the loan to be repaid. To the impoverished one
should give without expecting repayment."
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:23:12 +0000
From: "Peter Challen" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: [GJM] An excellent programme
I've reached the half-way stage of the programme
recommended below and use the 'break' to add my
recommendation to this sanguine critique of a complex
situation - a remarkable bit of broadcasting.
On 10/01/2008, Rodney Shakespeare
Alright, I know I should not say this (because I am
one of the speakers with Moeen Yaseen of
Globalvision2000) but Global Money Crisis: Just Where
Does the Buck Stop? is an excellent programme. Moeen
At last we have managed to put across on television
some analysis of what is wrong with the global economy
and also put across some idea of the GJM solution.
To see the programe:- go to www.Presstv.com then
(left-hand side) Programs then The Agenda then Global
Money Crisis: -- the programme on Monday, 9th January,
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ