|Subject:||[socialcredit] Re: [Cap_contacts] Fwd: Banking and the Canadian Government - revised|
|Date:||Wednesday, January 9, 2008 10:22:57 (-0800)|
|From:||william_b_ryan <william_b_ryan @.....com>
|In reply to:||Message 5191 (written by william_b_ryan)|
That's right, Joe. Especially in the early stages of
introducing the Dividend and Discount, I think you'll
see prices rising somewhat with increasing profits to
the suppliers of goods and services for consumption.
But the ratio of purchasing power to prices is
increasing, meaning that effective prices are dropping
even in the early stages of the introduction of Social
Credit. I do however think that nominal prices will
tend to stabilize in the longer term with increasing
purchasing power with increasing production motivated
by increasing profits.
Not only labor but all components of production are
being displaced in regard to units produced as a
result of advancing technology, but will never decline
to zero, because real resources will always be needed
for production even at the theoretical limit of
efficiency. So there will always be real costs that
must be cleared over the retail counter in the
Remember that the money system is an ordering system,
which we describe through the ticket metaphor, so I
must disagree with this utopian vision expressed by
Richard Cook at the close of a recently published
"Eventually the time may come when we will be more
developed spiritually and perhaps won’t even need
money anymore. Then people will be able to walk into
any store and take what they need, free for the
asking. We’ll do what work is required just for the
enjoyment and adventure of it. No one will desire what
another has because we finally will have understood
that the bounty of God’s universe is infinite. That
will be the ultimate monetary reform."
The more realistic vision was expressed by C. H.
Douglas as related by Roger Boyes:
"...A point amply borne out by the case of the
collective farms and their equipment. C.H. Douglas,
however, has provided a more recent critique, and it
is the more germane as it is directed at 'The Plan'.
Douglas' defence of genuine market economics against
those who favour a planned economy is best understood
from his vivid illustration of the golden sovereign.
When a man entered a shop and requested an item from
the shelf, proffering a sovereign as effective demand,
he immediately set in motion an order for the item to
be replaced on the shelf. On receipt of that order (or
in anticipation of it), carters carted, factory
workers set machines in motion, ships sailed, farmers
sowed and reaped, miners mined and quarrymen quarried.
The only weakness in the system was that not enough
people had sovereigns with which to command, and for
that Social Credit proposed a remedy. No centralised
Marxist or Fabian plan can provide for all the free
actions necessary to replace the item on the shelf. As
Douglas argued in Social Credit, plans are static -
Platonic Abstractions - whilst Society is dynamic. By
the time the minutiae of 'The Plan' have been
gathered, society has moved on to new situations; a
fact which defeated Labour's National Plan in 1969.
The Plan is an ideal form so that, even in Platonic
terms, actuality can never be identical to it."
We can indeed imagine a robotized society, where labor
has been completely displaced. But even the robots in
such a world will have to have some method of
determining the wants and needs of the humans they
serve, to determine what and how much to supply and
when to deliver it. I can think of no better method
than the free enterprise profit and loss system
utilizing money tendered at the point of retail, where
the robots are emulating entrepreneurial activity in
improving the quantity, quality and variety of what
they are supplying. It will take time for the robots
to react to changing demand from the humans they
serve. In the economy of the future, time is the only
ultimately scarce resource.
I wanted to comment briefly on the concept of the
national balance sheet.
It is useful as a philosophical model to illustrate
the concept, but not as a practical tool for
calculating the Dividend and Discount. The numbers
inputted will always be arbitrary, such as the
valuation placed upon the Cultural Heritage.
The more prudent course of action is based on the
principle of gradualism, where the Dividend and
Discount are introduced in relatively small amounts at
first, and gradually increased over time, so we might
deal appropriately with unforeseen consequences that
will inevitably occur.
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: [Cap_contacts] Fwd:
Banking and the CanadianGovernment - revised
Date: Monday, January 7, 2008 21:25:09 (-0500)
From: Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
In reply to: Message 5191 (written by william_b_ryan)
(Bill Ryan wrote:-) I do not believe that the falling
price level would be nominal but effective, in terms
of personal income.
(Joe asks:-) So personal incomes (in general) might
rise, and consumer prices (again in general), might
also rise, but not as much?
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