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Subject:RE: [socialcredit] Summarising
Date:Sunday, January 27, 2008  22:01:03 (+0000)
From:John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
In reply to:Message 5220 (written by Henry Raynel)

Thanks, Henry, but not good enough. If I have to study 26 pages of involved prose to correct something I dealt with in a paragraph or two, there is something wrong.  The two key points were that:
1. Douglas found that all the businesses he studied paid out less than the value of their total costs in wages salaries and dividends.  Is that wrong?
2. Other factors such as the banking system itself come into the scene for the total economy, therefore application of the model for individual industries to the economy as a whole obviously involves an element of theory. Hard data has never been presented to back up this step in the argument, but it is supported by cojparison with reality.  Is that wrong?
In relation to "Remedies", I believed I was quoting Douglas proposals exactly.  Please, if I have got any part of them wrong, particularly in relation to application of the "discount", point out the fault. Discussion beyond that is futile until we have established these points.
Very best wishes.
John R.



From: henry.raynel@actrix.gen.nz
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 14:39:30 +1300
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Summarising

I disagree with John’s interpretation of C H Douglas’s A + B. Please read and study Douglas Chapter IV “Monopoly of Credit” pages 27 t0 53.

I disagree with most of Johns remedies.

 

His reference to education and health Social Credit advocate private enterprise in general. During the evolution into Social Credit economics both State and Private Enterprise should be functioning on an equal competitive basis and the consumer will choose and judge which it wants.  We believe that when Taxation money is made portable on an equal basis both education and private enterprise health care will be preferred by most. The consumer must have the democratic right to judge.

 

Social Credit is natural economics. Society’s Credit (our money supply now supplied by private banks) must become owned and managed by its true owners the individuals of Society not by bankers. Money should be only a means of exchange not as now a commodity for speculators to buy and sell in a variety of ways.

Nor should money be allowed to continue to control our way of life and our very living standards.

I am happy to discuss this with you when you are here in Auckland. Please read C H Douglas “Monopoly of Credit” before you discuss with me. A full set of books for the Elementary Course are available, I don’t think your brain will not let you rest until you have done the study. The Course is expected to be completed in one year. There is three months reading study time before monthly tutorials begin. Thinking of your years past interest you could already have done the course about 10 times over. I think we have been communicating for about 10 years?

 

You are obviously interested in Social Credit New Economics. I invite your and Mother, one or both to apply to commit yourselves to do the Elementary Course with me as soon as you can. books cost $90 school fee $50. Total $140. Whatever Course books you have can be deducted from the $90 books cost.

I am impressed with your continued interest. I am also conscious of the extra knowledge of humanity and economics you have gained during those 10 years.

 

I look forward to talking with you in person.

 

Regards

Henry

 


From: Jamie Walton [mailto:eurojamie@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 12:55 p.m.
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Summarising

 

Hi John,

 

Well, I think you will get quite a response from this.  It is important to irno some things out, but the details are endless.  Even a novice like me feels like throwing some ideas into the mix.

 

I am in Melbourne now.  I am meeting with Don Auchterlonie this arvo.  I will get in touch with you when back in NZ.

 

Jamie.

 

On 25/01/2008, John G Rawson <johngrawson@hotmail.com> wrote:

I believe it is time to summarise key points that have emerged over the course of long discussions:
A+B ANALYSIS.
In terms of Douglas analysis of individual businesses,  this must be taken as factual.  Were it not, someone would have shown the data to be fallacious long ago.
When it is applied to the whole economy, because other factors may come it, the model becomes theoretical. But many points of evidence suggest it is more correct than the orthodox theory, none the least being the fact that  banking systems in modern times have increased money supplies comparatively astronomically without causing the equivalent disastrous inflation that orthodox theory would predict.  It has only occurred at a lesser level.
EFFECTS. Douglas predictions that the tendency towards a deficiency of purchasing power would cause periodic financial collapse, struggle for markets and even war appear to have been justified.
REMEDIES PROPOSED.
1. A system of national accounting for each country, to determine how much new money would be required over a following period carried out by a government agency, (note small "g"), a national credit authority, independent of political institutions, which would also create the necessary credits and distribute them as:
a. Subsidies (if this word grates, please provide an equivalent within present accepted lantguage) to reduce the cost of all comsumer goods (?and services), local or imported, at retail point, without any price control mechanism, and,
b. A national dividend, its value obviously dependent on the state of the economy as per the national balance sheet, to be paid equally to every adult citizen. 
Presumably the authority would decide the proportion to go each way.
It is accepted that no retailer will raise prices to higher levels, despite the fact that they would continue to be subsidised at any level. (Because we say so, presumably.)
It is also accepted (I believe reasonably) that sufficient people will desire to better themselves by working to produce goods etc., or will simply work for the good of the community because they enjoy so doing.
No new credits will be issued to central or local government agencies, which will continue to rely on present methods of finance:
1. Taxing, i.e. taking back from the people money distributed as above, and/or,
2. Borrowing, (leaving the lending institutions able to dictate at least some aspects of policies), and/or,
3. Shedding their responsibilities to private enterprise so that a "user pays" system operates. With divisions of standards of education and health services betwen rich and poor, and situations such as already exist in Britain and this country (NZ) where patients risk infection (and death) because hospital cleaners now exist to show a profit rather than to clean hospitals.
If I have erred in facts quoted, please correct me.  Undoubtedly the inferences based on them will occasion debate, but please, lets iron out any factual detail first.
Regards.
John R.


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