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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Summarising
Date:Thursday, January 31, 2008  14:35:25 (+1300)
From:William Hugh McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
In reply to:Message 5220 (written by Henry Raynel)

I disagree with John’s interpretation of C H Douglas’s A + B
Hi Henry and John
                        I have been otherwise engaged and have not been privy your discourse for some weeks. I have noe caught up. May I respectfully make the following observation.
       You appear to be at cross purposes. While having the greatest respect for you Henry, because I believe you are the best source for Social Credit theory in NZ, it is my experience that you cannot explain it to the average population as a university graduate course. He or she simply does not have the necessary educational expertise to grasp the finer points of your argument. I agree when you state the instructional course about Social Credit takes at least a year to absorb, but only those with sufficient time and dedication are able to do so. Thus for all practical purposes, when attempting to convince people of its validity, we need to devise a much shorter and less theoretical approach to the subject. Otherwise the general public simply "switches off" and we are wasting our time.
      John meanwhile has been attempting to reduce SC theory to a practical short message that is easily grasped by the "man-in-the-street". Obviously the fine detail must be pruned and reduced to an easily assimulated core. That is how I was introduced to Social Credit by some of the now deceased members in the King Country. My greater understanding came later after associating with members like you, John Rawson and Don Bethune. You are all different, but the picture painted by all of you has given me a much firmer idea why monetary reform particularly Social Credit monetary reform or something akin to SC, is vital to the future well being of the human race.
       To do this we need a brief and concise way of "putting our message across" to convince John and Mary public that the present system is corrupt and has built in mechanisms causing it to collapse at regular intervals thereby creating monetary shortages and business slumps. This is what John is trying to do. Personally I believe that until people understand how the present financial system operates we will be unable to point out its pitfalls and how Social Credit can overcome them. This in no way denigrates what you are doing Henry, because without your guidance many of the more obscure aspects of Social Credit would be lost to us and we would be in a position of only having a half theory unable to attain the goals for which SC was first devised. Nevertheless until someone understands the present mechanism they are in no position to understand how SC would modify that system to everyone's advantage.
   These are simply observations but I hope they clarify your positions and indicate how you are both essentail to the further undcerstanding and propogation of the SC Gospel. A theory is only as good as its operators.
  regards
         Bill McGunnigle
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Summarising

I disagree with John’s interpretation of C H Douglas’s A + B. Please read and study Douglas Chapter IV “Monopoly of Credit” pages 27 t0 53.

I disagree with most of Johns remedies.

 

His reference to education and health Social Credit advocate private enterprise in general. During the evolution into Social Credit economics both State and Private Enterprise should be functioning on an equal competitive basis and the consumer will choose and judge which it wants.  We believe that when Taxation money is made portable on an equal basis both education and private enterprise health care will be preferred by most. The consumer must have the democratic right to judge.

 

Social Credit is natural economics. Society’s Credit (our money supply now supplied by private banks) must become owned and managed by its true owners the individuals of Society not by bankers. Money should be only a means of exchange not as now a commodity for speculators to buy and sell in a variety of ways.

Nor should money be allowed to continue to control our way of life and our very living standards.

I am happy to discuss this with you when you are here in Auckland. Please read C H Douglas “Monopoly of Credit” before you discuss with me. A full set of books for the Elementary Course are available, I don’t think your brain will not let you rest until you have done the study. The Course is expected to be completed in one year. There is three months reading study time before monthly tutorials begin. Thinking of your years past interest you could already have done the course about 10 times over. I think we have been communicating for about 10 years?

 

You are obviously interested in Social Credit New Economics. I invite your and Mother, one or both to apply to commit yourselves to do the Elementary Course with me as soon as you can. books cost $90 school fee $50. Total $140. Whatever Course books you have can be deducted from the $90 books cost.

I am impressed with your continued interest. I am also conscious of the extra knowledge of humanity and economics you have gained during those 10 years.

 

I look forward to talking with you in person.

 

Regards

Henry

 


From: Jamie Walton [mailto:eurojamie@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 12:55 p.m.
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Summarising

 

Hi John,

 

Well, I think you will get quite a response from this.  It is important to irno some things out, but the details are endless.  Even a novice like me feels like throwing some ideas into the mix.

 

I am in Melbourne now.  I am meeting with Don Auchterlonie this arvo.  I will get in touch with you when back in NZ.

 

Jamie.

 

On 25/01/2008, John G Rawson <johngrawson@hotmail.com> wrote:

I believe it is time to summarise key points that have emerged over the course of long discussions:
A+B ANALYSIS.
In terms of Douglas analysis of individual businesses,  this must be taken as factual.  Were it not, someone would have shown the data to be fallacious long ago.
When it is applied to the whole economy, because other factors may come it, the model becomes theoretical. But many points of evidence suggest it is more correct than the orthodox theory, none the least being the fact that  banking systems in modern times have increased money supplies comparatively astronomically without causing the equivalent disastrous inflation that orthodox theory would predict.  It has only occurred at a lesser level.
EFFECTS. Douglas predictions that the tendency towards a deficiency of purchasing power would cause periodic financial collapse, struggle for markets and even war appear to have been justified.
REMEDIES PROPOSED.
1. A system of national accounting for each country, to determine how much new money would be required over a following period carried out by a government agency, (note small "g"), a national credit authority, independent of political institutions, which would also create the necessary credits and distribute them as:
a. Subsidies (if this word grates, please provide an equivalent within present accepted lantguage) to reduce the cost of all comsumer goods (?and services), local or imported, at retail point, without any price control mechanism, and,
b. A national dividend, its value obviously dependent on the state of the economy as per the national balance sheet, to be paid equally to every adult citizen. 
Presumably the authority would decide the proportion to go each way.
It is accepted that no retailer will raise prices to higher levels, despite the fact that they would continue to be subsidised at any level. (Because we say so, presumably.)
It is also accepted (I believe reasonably) that sufficient people will desire to better themselves by working to produce goods etc., or will simply work for the good of the community because they enjoy so doing.
No new credits will be issued to central or local government agencies, which will continue to rely on present methods of finance:
1. Taxing, i.e. taking back from the people money distributed as above, and/or,
2. Borrowing, (leaving the lending institutions able to dictate at least some aspects of policies), and/or,
3. Shedding their responsibilities to private enterprise so that a "user pays" system operates. With divisions of standards of education and health services betwen rich and poor, and situations such as already exist in Britain and this country (NZ) where patients risk infection (and death) because hospital cleaners now exist to show a profit rather than to clean hospitals.
If I have erred in facts quoted, please correct me.  Undoubtedly the inferences based on them will occasion debate, but please, lets iron out any factual detail first.
Regards.
John R.


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