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Re: More re Say's william_
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What is the actual william_
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The Use of Social william_
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The "Gap" John G R
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Subject:RE: [socialcredit] What is the actual "gap"?
Date:Wednesday, February 6, 2008  19:37:06 (+0000)
From:John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
In reply to:Message 5241 (written by william_b_ryan)

Thanks, Bill, for a sobering and possibly fairly accurate estimation. The "gap" must, of course, vary with the degree of expansion of the economy, among other things.
I wonder if someone authoritive will now, (?for the first time) make a reasonable effort to quantify the "gap" for some one nation, no0w? I do hope nobody will try to include in its causes all the interest charged by banks, and ignore their outgoings through expenses!  That bis the sort of loose reasoning that has made us appear ludicrous in the past.
Congratulations.  John R.

> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 09:51:20 -0800
> From: william_b_ryan@yahoo.com
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Subject: [socialcredit] What is the actual "gap"?
> Wally Klinck has just circulated a paper from 1924 by
> Francis L. Leet, L.L.D, a negative review of Douglas'
> *Credit Power and Democracy,* where he makes the
> following claim:
> "...we are informed by Major Douglas that our own
> Government is to print Treasury notes to the extent of
> the value approximately of three-fourths of our
> national output of commodities we feel how good the
> assurance is that no inflation can or will result.
> Also, as this is, beyond all question, the vital point
> in his system, we cannot doubt that Major Douglas and
> his collaborators have tested its soundness and
> genuineness with scientific care and accuracy."
> This is referring to the retail discount program. I
> do not recall that in *Credit Power,* or elsewhere,
> that Douglas said the discount should be an astounding
> seventy-five percent. I may have missed it. Perhaps
> someone more familiar with Douglas' work than I am
> will cite exactly where he said it. It has, however,
> been used from the very beginning to ridicule the
> Social Credit concept profusely. You might remember
> that we had a discussion a couple of years ago about
> Frank Ramsey's paper, which was much admired by
> Keynes, where Ramsey made the same claim, which I then
> characterized as a straw-man type of argument--the
> setting up of a ridiculous version of the theory, to
> knock down.
> I was therefore astonished to read in another paper,
> which Wally circulated a few days earlier, the text of
> Orage's BBC address from 1934, given, I think, a few
> hours before he died, where he claims:
> "The stream of Price-values to the shop-window moves
> much faster than the stream of Money-tickets to the
> shopping public, with the result that the annual
> collective shopping tickets of the nation, called its
> Income, are insufficient to meet the collective annual
> Price-values created in its shop. Now this is a matter
> of fact and not of theory; and it can be proved by
> simple arithmetic. Our shop-keeper, for instance, has
> told us that, at a rough estimate, our annual output
> of Price-values is ten thousand million pounds and
> probably more. And our taxing officials tell us, more
> accurately, that our annual Monetary Income is about
> two thousand five hundred million pounds. As four is
> to one, so is our output of Price-values to the
> Money-tickets with which to meet them. The nationĺs
> means of Consumption measured in Money-tickets, in
> short, is at least no more than a quarter of its means
> of Production measured in Prices."
> It is indeed a matter of simple arithmetic, but where
> the numbers appear to be quite arbitrary on Orage's
> part. I would have thought that in more than eighty
> years of political agitation, someone would have put
> meat behind the numbers, in determining what they
> actually are.
> My guess, and it's just a guess, is that the actual
> "gap" between "prices" and "purchasing power" is no
> more than two or three percent.
> Which is actually very profound and economically
> significant, in its compounding effect over time.
> It is counter-productive to overstate the case.
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit

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