| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Anti-Semitism | | Date: | Saturday, June 14, 2008 04:31:05 (-0700) | | From: | keith wilde <kwilde @...............org>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5386 (written by Joe Thomson) |
Thanks Joe. Yes, I did read the wikipedia article and noticed the addition at
the end about anti-semitism. I take it from your explanation that we still do
not know much about the author of the article. That seems strange, because the
article itself seems to be authortitative. At first I wondered if Bill had
written it. If not, surely he would be acquainted with the one who did?
Re the
Ellen Brown website, I was a bit surprised that a youngish scholar would be
digging up so much hoary old material. I haven't yet taken the time for a hard
look, but one of her quotations that demonstrate insiders spilling the beans
about money creation suggests she has used second-hand statements at least some
of the time. The one by Graham Towers is on the mark as far as the sentiment
goes, but I think the wording has been altered slightly (from the recorded
version in proceedings of the HofC committee). I wonder if this kind of
material is
popular among supporters of Ron Paul for President?
Keith
Joe Thomson
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca> wrote: Hi Keith,
There was a discussion on 'elistas'
some time ago regarding a previous
article on 'Social Credit' that was posted on
Wikipedia. Bill asked if
anyone knew who the author of that piece was, and
mentioned, if I recall
correctly, that it resembled material on posted on Jim
Schroeder's "Social
Credit" blog.
It was also metioned that that previous
Wikipedia article omitted
references to the oft-repeated charges that Social
Credit is 'anti-semitic'.
I believe it was mentioned that a David Kendall, a name
unknown to me, was
the article's author.
What Bill has posted just recently has
to do with a newly posted, revised
Wikipedia article on "Social Credit", which
seems to emanate from
the same
David Kendall. One where the previously mentioned omissions have
been
addressed.
I think the suggestions Bill has made, which would further improve
the
material in that new article, are excellent ones. And perhaps David
Kendall,
or whoever the author is, may want to make some further additions
to it in light
of the points Bill has just raised. Hope that helps clarify
the situation, and
that you find the Ellen Brown website interesting.
Joe
----- Original Message
-----
From: "KEITH WILDE"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:00 AM
Subject:
Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> I'm confused, by Bill's
original posting and by the responses by Martin
and
> Joe. If I had been paying
closer attention over past months, I might not
> be. However, what part of the
original was written by you, Bill? And who
> is David
Kendall? Did he write the wikipedia article, or were you posting
> his comment
about wanting the expansion to conspiracy theory? Was it on
> this elistas site
that there was a previous discussion of the wikipedia
> article?
>
> I'm off to
look at the money reform site mentioned by Joe.
>
> Keith
>
>
> >From: Joe
Thomson
> >Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> >To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>
>Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> >Date: Wed, 11
Jun 2008 20:10:33 -0700
> >
> > (Bill Ryan wrote:-) "I would like to see the
article further expanded
by
> >discussing conspiracy theory in general as it
relates to Social Credit,
> >particularly how it derives from nineteenth century
anti-banker
> >Greenbacker
> >propaganda."
> >
> >I think that's a very good
suggestion, Bill, since it seems a lot of that
> >'propaganda' is still being
put out as if it were "matters of fact."
> >
> >Have you seen the website for a
recent book on US 'monetary reform'
written
> >by a California attorney, Ellen
Hodgson Brown, and titled "Web of Debt"?
> >It's at www.webofdebt.com .
> >
> >
There are a few chapters reproduced there, as well as a discussion
group,
> >and
other offerings. Ms. Brown seems to draw very heavily on such
> >material,
>
>probably without being aware of its background.
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >-----
Original Message -----
> >From:
> >To:
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008
12:45 PM
> >Subject: [socialcredit] Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> >
> >
> > >
This is a recent revision to
the excellent article
> > > that we discussed earlier, which now includes the
>
> > discussion of Social Credit and anti-semitism appended
> > > below. I
would like to see it expanded somewhat, with
> > > something about Ezra Pound,
who was closely allied to
> > > Italian fascism, to the extent of broadcasting
>
> > anti-semitic rants during the Second World War from
> > > Rome radio, which
caused him to be charged with
> > > treason after the war. The criminal charges
were
> > > dropped and ultimately he was committed to a mental
> > > institution.
I would like to see the article further
> > > expanded by discussing conspiracy
theory in general as
> > > it relates to Social Credit, particularly how it
> > >
derives from nineteenth century anti-banker
> > > Greenbacker propaganda.
> >
>
> > > One small correction to the text: Janine Stingel's
> > > book is
titled "Social Discredit..." not "Social
> > > Credit..."
> > >
> > >
> > >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Social_Credit/Sandbox
> > >
> > > David
Kendall
> > >
> > > Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> > >
> > > Social Crediters, and
Douglas himself, have been
> > > criticized for spreading anti-semitism. While it
is
> > > true that Douglas was critical of international Jewry,
> > > especially
in his later writings, his criticisms were
> > > based upon Jewish philosophy,
not Jews as a race. His
> > > criticisms were based upon philosophical
differences
> > > between Christian doctrines of incarnation and
> > > salvation
through grace, and Judeo doctrines of
> >
> legalism and salvation through works: "It is not too
> > > much to say that
one of the root ideas through which
> > > Christianity comes into conflict with
the conceptions
> > > of the Old Testament and the ideals of the
> > >
pre-Christians era, is in respect of this dethronement
> > > of
abstractionism."[43]
> > >
> > > Social Credit is generally opposed to
abstractionist
> > > philosophies, as Douglas believed these philosophies
> > >
inevitably led to the elevation of abstractions, such
> > > as state over
individuals. He also believed that
> > > Jewish abstractionist thought tended to
lead them to
> > > communist ideals and the emphasis of the group over
> > > the
individual. "Anti-Semitism of the Douglas kind, if
> > > it can be called
anti-Semitism at all, may be
> > > fantastic, may
be dangerous even, in that it may be
> > > twisted into a dreadful form, but it
is not itself
> > > vicious nor evil."[44]
> > >
> > > In her book, *Social
Credit: Anti-Semitism, Social
> > > Credit and the Jewish Response*, Janine
Stingel
> > > claims, "Douglas's economic and political doctrines
> > > were
wholly dependent on an anti-Semitic conspiracy
> > > theory". [citation needed]
If Douglas's A+B theorem
> > > was based upon "anti-semitic conspiracy theory",
this
> > > claim might be valid. But the A+B theorem is based
> > > upon an
analysis of prices and incomes and their
> > > relation to cost accounting. While
some of Douglas's
> > > statements about Jews, especially in relation to the
> >
> spurious document known as "The Protocols of the
> > > Learned Elders of Zion"
have caused
numerous attacks
> > > on the entire movement, claims that his works wholly
> >
> based upon anti-semitic conspiracy theory is entirely
> > > false. "It must
also be noted that while Douglas was
> > > critical of some aspects of Jewish
thought, Douglas
> > > did not seek to discriminate against Jews as people.
> > >
It was never suggested that the National Dividend be
> > > withheld from
them.[44]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
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> > >
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> >
>
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> >Some
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>
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>
>
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