|
(Keith Wilde wrote:-) "I wonder if this kind of material is popular among
supporters of Ron Paul for President?"
(Joe replies:-) I believe much of it is,
Keith. If you type 'ruiz dempsey case' into
your computer's search bar, and read through some of the articles and commentary
posted there, you won't have to look too far before finding a "Ron Paul for
President" supporter.
John Ruiz-Dempsey, a BC resident,
launched a (supposed) "class action" lawsuit three years ago in a BC
Court essentially using the old Banks are guilty of fraud, etc. when
they loan money created "out of nothing" argument.
Judging from the various postings under that above
heading, he seems to have collected quite a motley crew of supporters, and the
'Greenbacker' propaganda, whether it be in support of what modern 'Greenbackers'
like Ellen Brown propose or not, has certainly been spread far and wide as
"fact".
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:31
AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit
and Anti-Semitism
Thanks Joe. Yes, I did read the wikipedia article and
noticed the addition at the end about anti-semitism. I take it from your
explanation that we still do not know much about the author of the
article. That seems strange, because the article itself seems to be
authortitative. At first I wondered if Bill had written it. If not,
surely he would be acquainted with the one who did?
Re the Ellen Brown
website, I was a bit surprised that a youngish scholar would be digging up so
much hoary old material. I haven't yet taken the time for a hard look, but one
of her quotations that demonstrate insiders spilling the beans about money
creation suggests she has used second-hand statements at least some of the
time. The one by Graham Towers is on the mark as far as the sentiment
goes, but I think the wording has been altered slightly (from the recorded
version in proceedings of the HofC committee). I wonder if this kind of
material is popular among supporters of Ron Paul for
President?
Keith
Joe Thomson
<thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca> wrote:
Hi
Keith,
There was a discussion on 'elistas' some time ago regarding a
previous
article on 'Social Credit' that was posted on Wikipedia. Bill
asked if
anyone knew who the author of that piece was, and mentioned, if
I recall
correctly, that it resembled material on posted on Jim
Schroeder's "Social
Credit" blog.
It was also metioned that that
previous Wikipedia article omitted
references to the oft-repeated charges
that Social Credit is 'anti-semitic'.
I believe it was mentioned that a
David Kendall, a name unknown to me, was
the article's
author.
What Bill has posted just recently has to do with a newly
posted, revised
Wikipedia article on "Social Credit", which seems to
emanate from the same
David Kendall. One where the previously mentioned
omissions have been
addressed.
I think the suggestions Bill has
made, which would further improve the
material in that new article, are
excellent ones. And perhaps David
Kendall, or whoever the author is, may
want to make some further additions
to it in light of the points Bill has
just raised. Hope that helps clarify
the situation, and that you find the
Ellen Brown website interesting.
Joe
----- Original Message
-----
From: "KEITH WILDE"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:00
AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
Anti-Semitism
> I'm confused, by Bill's original posting and
by the responses by Martin
and
> Joe. If I had been paying closer
attention over past months, I might not
> be. However, what part of
the original was written by you, Bill? And who
> is David Kendall? Did
he write the wikipedia article, or were you posting
> his comment
about wanting the expansion to conspiracy theory? Was it on
> this
elistas site that there was a previous discussion of the wikipedia
>
article?
>
> I'm off to look at the money reform site mentioned
by Joe.
>
> Keith
>
>
> >From: Joe Thomson
> >Reply-To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>
>To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> >Subject: Re: [socialcredit]
Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> >Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 20:10:33
-0700
> >
> > (Bill Ryan wrote:-) "I would like to see the
article further expanded
by
> >discussing conspiracy theory in
general as it relates to Social Credit,
> >particularly how it
derives from nineteenth century anti-banker
> >Greenbacker
>
>propaganda."
> >
> >I think that's a very good
suggestion, Bill, since it seems a lot of that
> >'propaganda' is
still being put out as if it were "matters of fact."
> >
>
>Have you seen the website for a recent book on US 'monetary
reform'
written
> >by a California attorney, Ellen Hodgson
Brown, and titled "Web of Debt"?
> >It's at www.webofdebt.com
.
> >
> > There are a few chapters reproduced there, as
well as a discussion
group,
> >and other offerings. Ms. Brown
seems to draw very heavily on such
> >material,
>
>probably without being aware of its background.
> >
>
>Joe
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
>
>From:
> >To:
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:45
PM
> >Subject: [socialcredit] Social Credit and
Anti-Semitism
> >
> >
> > > This is a recent
revision to the excellent article
> > > that we discussed
earlier, which now includes the
> > > discussion of Social
Credit and anti-semitism appended
> > > below. I would like to
see it expanded somewhat, with
> > > something about Ezra Pound,
who was closely allied to
> > > Italian fascism, to the extent
of broadcasting
> > > anti-semitic rants during the Second World
War from
> > > Rome radio, which caused him to be charged
with
> > > treason after the war. The criminal charges
were
> > > dropped and ultimately he was committed to a
mental
> > > institution. I would like to see the article
further
> > > expanded by discussing conspiracy theory in
general as
> > > it relates to Social Credit, particularly how
it
> > > derives from nineteenth century anti-banker
>
> > Greenbacker propaganda.
> > >
> > > One
small correction to the text: Janine Stingel's
> > > book is
titled "Social Discredit..." not "Social
> > >
Credit..."
> > >
> > >
> > >
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Social_Credit/Sandbox
> >
>
> > > David Kendall
> > >
> > >
Social Credit and Anti-Semitism
> > >
> > > Social
Crediters, and Douglas himself, have been
> > > criticized for
spreading anti-semitism. While it is
> > > true that Douglas was
critical of international Jewry,
> > > especially in his later
writings, his criticisms were
> > > based upon Jewish
philosophy, not Jews as a race. His
> > > criticisms were based
upon philosophical differences
> > > between Christian doctrines
of incarnation and
> > > salvation through grace, and Judeo
doctrines of
> > > legalism and salvation through works: "It is
not too
> > > much to say that one of the root ideas through
which
> > > Christianity comes into conflict with the
conceptions
> > > of the Old Testament and the ideals of
the
> > > pre-Christians era, is in respect of this
dethronement
> > > of abstractionism."[43]
> >
>
> > > Social Credit is generally opposed to
abstractionist
> > > philosophies, as Douglas believed these
philosophies
> > > inevitably led to the elevation of
abstractions, such
> > > as state over individuals. He also
believed that
> > > Jewish abstractionist thought tended to lead
them to
> > > communist ideals and the emphasis of the group
over
> > > the individual. "Anti-Semitism of the Douglas kind,
if
> > > it can be called anti-Semitism at all, may be
>
> > fantastic, may be dangerous even, in that it may be
> >
> twisted into a dreadful form, but it is not itself
> > >
vicious nor evil."[44]
> > >
> > > In her book,
*Social Credit: Anti-Semitism, Social
> > > Credit and the
Jewish Response*, Janine Stingel
> > > claims, "Douglas's
economic and political doctrines
> > > were wholly dependent on
an anti-Semitic conspiracy
> > > theory". [citation needed] If
Douglas's A+B theorem
> > > was based upon "anti-semitic
conspiracy theory", this
> > > claim might be valid. But the A+B
theorem is based
> > > upon an analysis of prices and incomes
and their
> > > relation to cost accounting. While some of
Douglas's
> > > statements about Jews, especially in relation to
the
> > > spurious document known as "The Protocols of
the
> > > Learned Elders of Zion" have caused numerous
attacks
> > > on the entire movement, claims that his works
wholly
> > > based upon anti-semitic conspiracy theory is
entirely
> > > false. "It must also be noted that while Douglas
was
> > > critical of some aspects of Jewish thought,
Douglas
> > > did not seek to discriminate against Jews as
people.
> > > It was never suggested that the National Dividend
be
> > > withheld from them.[44]
> > >
> >
>
> > >
> > >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
are
at
> > >
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > > You're
subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> > >
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
> >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>
>You're subscribed to this list with the email
keithwilde@sympatico.ca
> >For more information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're
subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> For more
information, visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some
introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to
this list with the email kwilde@tc-biodiversity.org
For more information,
visit
http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
|
Re: [socialcredit]
Reply to this message
