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Message 5414
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| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] RE: [socialcredit] Definition of usury. | | Date: | Thursday, June 26, 2008 22:22:28 (+0000) | | From: | John G Rawson <johngrawson @.......com>
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| In reply to: | Message 5411 (written by Per Almgren) |
Thanks Per. Partly that was to emphasise a point that a lot do overlook. See for example the Pilgrims' island story. Their banker never buys a solitary egg from them.
Regards.
John R.
> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 09:28:34 +0200
> From: almgren_per@telia.com
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Subject: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] RE: [socialcredit] Definition of usury.
>
> John G Rawson skrev:
> > Perhaps. But don't forget banks have costs too. Salaries, rent,
> > fleet, electricity etc. I'm sure they reinvest some of their intake,
> > *but to assume none of the interest charged comes out becomes
> > purchasing power is ridiculous.*
> > Regards.
> > John R.
> >
> I am *not* forgetting that the banks have costs and I am *not* supposing
> that none of the interest paid becocomes purchasing power, I am
> considering the part that is not used for purchasing, see my second
> paragraph. It is the part that is not used for purchasing that causes
> the main problem. A smaller problem, but not to be neglected, is that
> income from just owning means that you will get that money without
> actually producing anything, thus make the average price level higher
> than it has to be, but not increasing the gat between they who have a
> lot of money and those who doesn't have.
> Per Almgren
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:53:43 +0200
> > > From: almgren_per@telia.com
> > > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of usury.
> > >
> > > Joe Thomson skrev:
> > > > (Martin wrote:-) Something that concerns me about Douglas is the
> > fact that
> > > > he appears to wish
> > > > to superimpose his Social Credit remedies on a banking system not
> > > > fundamentally changed from the present. As I see it, the toleration of
> > > > interest (reward without risk), is in fact a means by which those
> > who issue
> > > > credit become more and more wealthy at the expenses of the public,
> > the value
> > > > of whose money is steadily eroded by inflation.
> > > >
> > > > (Joe comments:-) I think what you're saying about Douglas above
> > may well be
> > > > true, Martin.
> > > >
> > > > But is there really "reward without risk" for those who "issue
> > credit" if
> > > > the value of the public's money is steadily eroded by inflation?
> > > >
> > > > For is not the "public's money" the same money by which you say
> > the issuers
> > > > of credit will become "more and more wealthy"?
> > > >
> > > > And if it is, and it's being steadily eroded by inflation over time in
> > > > terms of what it'll buy, there's certainly a "risk" present there,
> > too, I
> > > > would think.
> > > >
> > > The interest paid is actually causing the inflation since there is only
> > > two types of costs includid in the price of goods and services.
> > > One is the payment for labor, the other is payment to those who owns
> > > money, either in the form of interest or in the form of profit.
> > >
> > > *If not all of the received income is used directly for purchasing
> > goods
> > > or services*, or given to other people who uses it directly for
> > > purchasing goods or seriveces or given ... and so on, then the rest of
> > > the money is either witheld (hoarded) or lended or "invested" in some
> > > kind of "papers" that give a return, i.e. shares or bonds.
> > >
> > > Since the group who paid the costs for interest and profit doesn't get
> > > the total sum back in form of wages and salaries they will have less
> > > money than before unless they in one way or another borrows more money
> > > from somebody outside this group. As times pass by they will get more
> > > and more indebted and/or experience a rising rate of unemployment. (In
> > > this description a person could belong to both groups if he or she
> > > both get interst and a salry or wage.)
> > >
> > > The same problem occurs if people starts to save part of their wages
> > and
> > > salaries. What is then actually happening is that their personal
> > > situation gradually move their "point of gravity" from the working
> > group
> > > to the owning group. For most of them, it won't improve their
> > economical
> > > situation. The cause of this is that the cost part of interest of goods
> > > and services will rise as fast as this move goes on.
> > >
> > > In order to be a winner in this type of interest and profit system,
> > your
> > > part of the total invested and lended sum must be grater than yor part
> > > of the total income from wages and salaries. Many years ago, I checked
> > > this from a representative sample (about 13 000 housholds) of the
> > > Swedish population from official statistics. The result was that only
> > > two percent of the total population actually was to be found among the
> > > winners. That means that a lot of people supports the present system
> > > although they actually are among the losers, but they themselves
> > > apparently think that they belong to the winners group. It also shows
> > > that the skills and interst in mathematics among the population is
> > quite
> > > low and such calculations are of course not teached in the schools.
> > >
> > > If people and businesses get more and more indebted they simply have to
> > > rise their prices for work or products they sell, or to increase the
> > > volumes which again can't be done without increasing their loanes
> > and so
> > > on until the environment as we see it collapses and with it the present
> > > type of economy.
> > >
> > > Per Almgren
>
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