| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] Re: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] RE:[socialcredit] Definition of usury. | | Date: | Friday, June 27, 2008 20:36:28 (-0700) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5416 (written by Per Almgren) |
(Alasdair Thompson wrote:-)> Some goes to fund *capex* and thus keep the
bank fit for purpose and to remian profitable in the future.
>
(Per Almgren:-) I don't know the meaning of the word CAPEX, have not been
able to find
it in my dictionaries.
(Joe Thomson replies:-) I believe it's a short way of saying , "Capital
Expansion", Per.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Per Almgren" <almgren_per@telia.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:58 PM
Subject: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] Re: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM]
RE:[socialcredit] Definition of usury.
> Alasdair Thompson skrev:
> >
> > The bit of interest that is retained is profit and the bank
> > shareholders do do something for it.it
> >
> What do you mean that they do? Examples?
> >
> > But not all profit goes out in dividends.
> >
> Yes
> >
> > Some goes to fund *capex* and thus keep the bank fit for purpose and
> > to remian profitable in the future.
> >
> I don't know the meaning of the word CAPEX, have not been able to find
> it in my dictionaries.
> As long as they dont buy goods or services for that amount, they are
> causing economic problems
> for the sosurrounding society in the way I described.
>
> Per Almgren
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Per Almgren <almgren_per@telia.com>
> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > Sent: Thu Jun 26 19:28:34 2008
> > Subject: [socialcredit] Re: [SPAM] RE: [socialcredit] Definition of
usury.
> >
> > John G Rawson skrev:
> > > Perhaps. But don't forget banks have costs too. Salaries, rent,
> > > fleet, electricity etc. I'm sure they reinvest some of their intake,
> > > *but to assume none of the interest charged comes out becomes
> > > purchasing power is ridiculous.*
> > > Regards.
> > > John R.
> > >
> > I am *not* forgetting that the banks have costs and I am *not* supposing
> > that none of the interest paid becocomes purchasing power, I am
> > considering the part that is not used for purchasing, see my second
> > paragraph. It is the part that is not used for purchasing that causes
> > the main problem. A smaller problem, but not to be neglected, is that
> > income from just owning means that you will get that money without
> > actually producing anything, thus make the average price level higher
> > than it has to be, but not increasing the gat between they who have a
> > lot of money and those who doesn't have.
> > Per Almgren
> > >
> > > > Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:53:43 +0200
> > > > From: almgren_per@telia.com
> > > > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Definition of usury.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Thomson skrev:
> > > > > (Martin wrote:-) Something that concerns me about Douglas is the
> > > fact that
> > > > > he appears to wish
> > > > > to superimpose his Social Credit remedies on a banking system not
> > > > > fundamentally changed from the present. As I see it, the
> > toleration of
> > > > > interest (reward without risk), is in fact a means by which those
> > > who issue
> > > > > credit become more and more wealthy at the expenses of the public,
> > > the value
> > > > > of whose money is steadily eroded by inflation.
> > > > >
> > > > > (Joe comments:-) I think what you're saying about Douglas above
> > > may well be
> > > > > true, Martin.
> > > > >
> > > > > But is there really "reward without risk" for those who "issue
> > > credit" if
> > > > > the value of the public's money is steadily eroded by inflation?
> > > > >
> > > > > For is not the "public's money" the same money by which you say
> > > the issuers
> > > > > of credit will become "more and more wealthy"?
> > > > >
> > > > > And if it is, and it's being steadily eroded by inflation over
> > time in
> > > > > terms of what it'll buy, there's certainly a "risk" present there,
> > > too, I
> > > > > would think.
> > > > >
> > > > The interest paid is actually causing the inflation since there is
> > only
> > > > two types of costs includid in the price of goods and services.
> > > > One is the payment for labor, the other is payment to those who owns
> > > > money, either in the form of interest or in the form of profit.
> > > >
> > > > *If not all of the received income is used directly for purchasing
> > > goods
> > > > or services*, or given to other people who uses it directly for
> > > > purchasing goods or seriveces or given ... and so on, then the rest
of
> > > > the money is either witheld (hoarded) or lended or "invested" in
some
> > > > kind of "papers" that give a return, i.e. shares or bonds.
> > > >
> > > > Since the group who paid the costs for interest and profit doesn't
get
> > > > the total sum back in form of wages and salaries they will have less
> > > > money than before unless they in one way or another borrows more
money
> > > > from somebody outside this group. As times pass by they will get
more
> > > > and more indebted and/or experience a rising rate of unemployment.
(In
> > > > this description a person could belong to both groups if he or she
> > > > both get interst and a salry or wage.)
> > > >
> > > > The same problem occurs if people starts to save part of their wages
> > > and
> > > > salaries. What is then actually happening is that their personal
> > > > situation gradually move their "point of gravity" from the working
> > > group
> > > > to the owning group. For most of them, it won't improve their
> > > economical
> > > > situation. The cause of this is that the cost part of interest of
> > goods
> > > > and services will rise as fast as this move goes on.
> > > >
> > > > In order to be a winner in this type of interest and profit system,
> > > your
> > > > part of the total invested and lended sum must be grater than yor
part
> > > > of the total income from wages and salaries. Many years ago, I
checked
> > > > this from a representative sample (about 13 000 housholds) of the
> > > > Swedish population from official statistics. The result was that
only
> > > > two percent of the total population actually was to be found among
the
> > > > winners. That means that a lot of people supports the present system
> > > > although they actually are among the losers, but they themselves
> > > > apparently think that they belong to the winners group. It also
shows
> > > > that the skills and interst in mathematics among the population is
> > > quite
> > > > low and such calculations are of course not teached in the schools.
> > > >
> > > > If people and businesses get more and more indebted they simply
> > have to
> > > > rise their prices for work or products they sell, or to increase the
> > > > volumes which again can't be done without increasing their loanes
> > > and so
> > > > on until the environment as we see it collapses and with it the
> > present
> > > > type of economy.
> > > >
> > > > Per Almgren
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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