| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] An exchange with two other correspondents re SocialCredit | | Date: | Thursday, July 17, 2008 22:09:03 (-0700) | | From: | Joe Thomson <thomsonhiyu @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5465 (written by william_b_ryan) |
(Bill Ryan wrote:-) "Why should the salaries and wages be less than the
depreciation at any given point in time? "
(Joe suggests:-) Ongoing improvements in process? The manufacture of
"replacement capital" itself is also becoming more and more automated, and
displacing labour in itself as well as making the means to do so elsewhere.
----- Original Message -----
From: <william_b_ryan@yahoo.com>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] An exchange with two other correspondents re
SocialCredit
> "The consumer is properly charged with capital depreciation but not
properly credited against these charges with capital appreciation which
historically increases much more rapidly than capital depreciation."
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> The consumer is being credited with the salaries and wages being paid in
producing the capital that is being depreciated into prices. The question
is: Why should the salaries and wages be less than the depreciation at any
given point in time? One can easily imagine a steady state situation where
the salaries and wages being paid in producing replacement capital for the
capital being depreciated is exactly equal to the depreciation being charged
into prices.
>
> Comments are invited.
>
>
> --- On Tue, 7/15/08, Wallace Klinck <wmklinck@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > From: Wallace Klinck <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
> > Subject: [socialcredit] An exchange with two other correspondents re
Social Credit
> > To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> > Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 4:34 AM
> > The following comments were offered to two other
> > correspondents who
> > had been discussing Social Credit on a Blog.
> >
> > > In response to your exchange regarding the
> > "Protocols" and C. H.
> > > Douglas's Social Credit theory of money:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Douglas was a widely and internationally experienced
> > engineer
> > > accustomed to working with concrete things in a
> > scientific way. He
> > > was called in as Assistant Director of the Royal
> > Aircraft Works in
> > > Farnborough to solve a costing muddle and without even
> > making a
> > > working hypothesis began in an inductive manner to
> > investigate the
> > > nature of the problem. He discovered that the plant
> > was generating
> > > financial costs and prices in excess of the financial
> > incomes being
> > > dispersed. Subsequently investigations into a large
> > number of other
> > > British businesses revealed the same phenomenon. He
> > then formulated
> > > his A + B Theorem which was a formal statement
> > describing the
> > > operation of the existing price system which he
> > described as
> > > mathematically unsound inasmuch as the discovered
> > chronic and
> > > increasing deficiency of consumer income required an
> > increasing
> > > dependency on debt for the processes of production and
> > consumption
> > > to carry on. He recommended that non-repayable
> > consumer credit be
> > > distributed to the community in the form of a National
> > (Consumer)
> > > Dividend and sums paid to retailers at point of sale
> > to institute
> > > Compensated (falling) Prices. The central problem is
> > that consumers
> > > are currently charged in price with additional
> > allocated charges in
> > > respect of capital which do not in the current cycle
> > distribute
> > > equivalent consumer financial purchasing power. The
> > consumer is
> > > properly charged with capital depreciation but not
> > properly credited
> > > against these charges with capital appreciation which
> > historically
> > > increases much more rapidly than capital depreciation.
> > The purpose
> > > of the Dividend and Compensated Price is to correct
> > the deficiency
> > > of consumer purchasing-power by conferring upon all
> > citizens as
> > > consumers a beneficial (not direct) share in the
> > communal capital--
> > > in the form of ensured access to all goods emanating
> > from each
> > > production cycle, irrespective of whether of not a
> > citizen is
> > > actually working in the productive system. Each
> > citizen is
> > > considered to be of value as a consumer and to have an
> > inalienable
> > > right to an inheritance in the communal capital--which
> > grows as
> > > technology replaces labour as a factor of production
> > through
> > > automation, etc. It is the increased proportionate
> > use of physical
> > > capital which under historic cost accountancy
> > conventions
> > > constitutes the core cause of the increasing
> > deficiency of
> > > purchasing power. The injection of debt into the area
> > of consumer
> > > spending is inflationary and as such is an attempted
> > violation of
> > > natural law. The true cost of production is the mean
> > rate (measured
> > > in financial terms as at present) of total national
> > consumption
> > > divided by the mean rate of national
> > production--historically and
> > > increasingly less than a value of one. We should have
> > a falling
> > > price-level with the ability of all consumers,
> > dynamically, to draw
> > > fully with increasingly independent financial income
> > on current
> > > production without resort to financial debt, i.e.,
> > without
> > > mortgaging the future. The implications are immense.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fiat money is usually defined as money issued by
> > decree by a
> > > political authority and not being guaranteed as to
> > redemption--
> > > usually in gold. Social Credit financing of
> > production is done only
> > > for a demonstrated capacity to produce in terms of the
> > assessed real
> > > (i.e., physical) credit of society to deliver in terms
> > of available
> > > resources. The Social Credit consumption credits are
> > issued only as
> > > a reflection or measure of actual goods as they
> > emanate in finalized
> > > form from the production process. If consumption were
> > to rise
> > > relative to production the Dividend would be reduced
> > as would the
> > > Compensation of Prices and the price-level would rise.
> > This is not
> > > characteristic of the historic progressive
> > advancements of the
> > > patterns of production and consumption, however, and
> > would not be
> > > expected in normal circumstances. Excess and wasteful
> > production
> > > (which finds its most destructive and reprehensible
> > form in physical
> > > warfare) would no longer be required merely to
> > generate additional
> > > consumer income in order to make up for the existing
> > deficiency so
> > > that consumers can access past production. Nor would
> > nations be
> > > forced by financial necessity into destructive
> > patterns of intense
> > > competition in order to capture financial credit from
> > other nations--
> > > while exporting an excess of actual wealth.
> > "Unemployment" would be
> > > seen as a blessing--and a welcome release from endless
> > toil
> > > necessitated now purely for abstract and erroneous
> > financial
> > > accountancy reasons quite unrelated to realistic
> > physical
> > > considerations concerning the real potential for
> > actual abundance
> > > measured in terms of available goods and services and
> > increasing
> > > leisure. In the context of Social Credit policy money
> > is issued for
> > > production and cancelled, or redeemed, on consumption.
> > It is issued
> > > for production according with actual determined
> > physical capacity to
> > > perform and for consumption only in respect of goods
> > which have
> > > actually been produced. Consequently, the term
> > "fiat" is a clear
> > > misrepresentation of credit as issued in accord with
> > Social Credit
> > > policy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > During the time of Douglas's original research,
> > the Protocols were
> > > fairly well known and Douglas was aware of them.
> > However, the
> > > origin of his insights was primarily in his purely
> > inductive
> > > research. He did live in an essentially Christian
> > culture and his
> > > proposals more by accident than by design are
> > consonant with the
> > > Christian Doctrine of Salvation through Grace as
> > opposed to the
> > > notion of Salvation through Works--an inherently,
> > although not
> > > exclusively, Jewish concept. Social Credit is
> > therefore
> > > distributive in nature. It is not legalistic and aims
> > toward the
> > > realistic integration of ends and means, the
> > incarnation of policy
> > > in the realistic affairs and relationships of mankind.
> > It is,
> > > therefore, opposed to Utopianism and Abstractionism.
> > Social Credit
> > > does not profess to know the absolute end purpose and
> > nature of
> > > human life--but believes that these can best be
> > approached and
> > > realized in the context of human freedom and
> > individual initiative
> > > unimpeded by centralized and arbitrary external power.
> > Social
> > > Credit holds that maximal economic security is
> > essential for such
> > > optimal conditions of immanent sovereignty to obtain
> > in the lives of
> > > individual persons. Although the
> > "Protocols" seem very prescient
> > > and certainly the unfolding of events closely
> > parallels their
> > > contents they do have precedent historic expressions
> > of policy.
> > > They are not intrinsic to the existence and/or
> > emergence of Social
> > > Credit philosophy and policy which are essentially
> > both scientific
> > > and Christian in nature--and Social Credit exists
> > quite independent
> > > of any other policy although it may be, and is in
> > certain unique
> > > ways, both compatible and incompatible with policies
> > deriving from
> > > other philosophies. Social Credit has been defined
> > as the ability
> > > of humans in association to maximize the increments of
> > association
> > > (while minimizing the decrements of association) in a
> > manner so that
> > > these increments redound to the genuine satisfaction
> > of
> > > individuals. It has been defined as "practical
> > Christianity."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I attach some PDF documentation for your reference.
> > Some Web links
> > > are:
> > >
> > > Major Douglas -- The Policy of a Philosophy
> > >
> > > Social Credit by Major Clifford Hugh Douglas
> > >
> > > Social Credit Blogspot
> > >
> > > Social Credit Secretariat
> > >
> > > SOCIAL CREDIT SCHOOL OF STUDIES
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this
> > list are at
> > http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> > You're subscribed to this list with the email
> > william_b_ryan@yahoo.com
> > For more information, visit
> > http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email thomsonhiyu@shaw.ca
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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