| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] social credit: over and weakly stated | | Date: | Sunday, August 3, 2008 02:29:17 (-0600) | | From: | Wallace Klinck <wmklinck @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5481 (written by Swieto Radosci) |
Social Credit is not an "underconsumption" theory. Social Credit
holds that excess consumption is dictated by the requirement of
society to meet escalating debt payments, payments which are not valid
and are required because of a fundamental flaw in industrial financial
cost-accountancy. Indeed, Social Credit recognizes that under the
current financial system, consumption is grossly excessive because of
the necessity to generate increasing amounts of additional production
before consumers are allowed by the dictates of the financial system
to access past production. The production of shoddy goods represents
waste--and the continuing pursuit of war which the present financial
system makes virtually inevitable is the ultimate obscenity. The
destruction visited upon Europe twice in the past century and the
continuing campaigns of destruction are poignant examples of the
blasphemous "consumption" which characterizes the orthodox financial
regime.
Social Credit is concerned with balancing consumer demand with the
price of consumer goods manufactured to satisfy the real physical
demands of society. This is no way suggests a need for phrenetic and
exponentially expanding production, as such. In a Social Credit
dispensation the pattern of production would change so as to yield
goods and services that are more genuinely desired by consumers.
Consumers will seek increasing leisure rather that allowing themselves
to be conscripted by the state or any other powers to engage in
wasteful and destructive patterns of behaviour. While it may be that
during the past actual production has become, at times, depressed
below the real desired needs of citizens, Social Credit policy enacted
would have rectified this situation. In a state of satiety or
sufficiency consumers will value leisure above material things-- and,
not being compelled merely for specious financial reasons to increase
production, the system actually will become more efficient and less
wasteful.
Sincerely
Wally
On 2-Aug-08, at 6:05 AM, Swieto Radosci wrote:
> wb ryan wrote:
> "Professional economists once took the Social Credit argument
> seriously, and devoted chapters in their books refuting the Social
> Credit argument for endemic underconsumption."
>
> Maybe they argued well against A +B theorem from their perspective,
> but it doesn't mean that underconsumption is not a problem these
> days. Underconsumption stems not only from propaganda of
> consumption, but mostly from high and growing inequalities in
> private incomes. We have built a new pyramid of those who have too
> much capital to could consciously manage it centrally for the
> betterment of the world, and those who have too much debts to manage
> them rationally with the guidance of those those who have too much
> capital.
>
> Speaking about average quotas in economy makes little sense because
> their distribution within a population really matters when
> considering "endemic underconsumption". Endemic misdistribution of
> wealth makes pyramid higher and higher and permanent
> underconsumption hard psychological fact. The continuing build-up of
> a pyramid was lastly demonstrated here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121677287690575589.html
>
> Kristof Levandovski
>
>
> william_b_ryan@yahoo.com pisze:
>> Wally Klinck has recently very graciously circulated photocopies of
>> Maurice Colbourne's *The Meaning of Social Credit*, which, under a
>> different title, is reportedly the book that inspired Aberhart to
>> adopt Social Credit, thereby changing world history.
>>
>> It contains the typical seventy-five percent retail discount
>> assertion that, in my estimation, is so overstated as to be
>> ridiculous. A definite turn-off to people with ordinary common
>> sense and education. In this proposal new money is being created
>> by the credit authority in the amount of seventy-five percent of
>> retail sales. One wonders where all the money is going and how
>> this could not result in massive inflation. A more realistic
>> discount I think would be on the order of no more than 2.5 percent,
>> so the Social Credit proposal is overstated at least by a factor of
>> 30 to 1.
>>
>> Another problem is the weakly stated A + B theorem. The following
>> statement is typical:
>>
>> "The essential problem is that the consumer is charged in prices,
>> quite properly, with capital depreciation, but, quite wrongly, not
>> credited with capital appreciation."
>>
>> I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. What, for
>> example, is meant by "capital appreciation"? One would suppose
>> that somehow the dividend and discount is the crediting to
>> consumers of "capital appreciation." One thing for sure, this is
>> not the justification for the dividend and discount given in
>> Chapter 10 of *Credit-Power and Democracy*.
>> http://geocities.com/socredus/compendium/chapter10.txt
>>
>> Social Crediters had decades to firm up their argument in terms
>> that made sense. Professional economists once took the Social
>> Credit argument seriously, and devoted chapters in their books
>> refuting the Social Credit argument for endemic underconsumption.
>> The famous economist the late Robert Heilbronner devoted chapters
>> in his macroeconomic college textbooks until he stopped publishing
>> textbooks in the 1990s. During the past fifteen years, for the
>> first period since 1918, professional economists have completely
>> ignored Social Credit. I think the reason for this for the large
>> part is the lack of anything new from that camp. They have said
>> everything they are going to say on the matter until something new
>> comes along.
>>
>> In fact, perhaps the strongest argument for A + B ever presented is
>> not from anyone identified with the Social Credit movement, but the
>> obscure P. W. Martin in 1924.
>> http://geocities.com/new_economics/martin-douglasist
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>> are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
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>>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
> at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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