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Re: [socialcredit] William
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these present disc william_
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Report from the fi Thomas G
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Something that sho Joe Thom
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"Fiat Empire" vide Wallace
Finance: Credit " Wallace
Re: Of interest??? Joe Thom
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"
Date:Sunday, November 9, 2008  09:09:46 (+1300)
From:William Hugh McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
In reply to:Message 5666 (written by Wallace Klinck)

HI Wallace
 Thank you for your injection of comment to the discourse between Joe and I. I had over looked the vast expansion of hire-purchase as one of the contributors to the present debt burden scenario. It is as you have pointed out a significant part of the debt equation, and a rather subtle one too, because it is an insidious cancer that preys on people's greed for material goods. You tend to forget that all hire purchase funding is actually a debt provided by the banking system, but one on which two sets of interest are paid one to the bank and one to the company providing the hire purchase agreement. This creates astronomical interest rates.
  regards Bill Mc Gunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"

That's right, Joe.  We should get to the root of the problem and stop hacking around at the branches.  The root cause is a fundamental defect in national financial cost accountancy.  At the consumer or retail level there is no risk factor when the consumer has sufficient aggregate income to claim the full issue of wealth from the production system.  No borrowing to purchase consumer goods--no debt--no interest--no risk.  The question of default is non-existent and, therefore,  irrelevant.  The practice of hire-purchase or installment buying arose and expanded ("exploded" might be a more apt description) due to a growing deficiency of consumer purchasing power as the economy moved from primitive hand production to sophisticated modern multi-stage machine production.  Social Credit addresses this problem by compensating for this deficiency.  People who keep insisting on the state issue of "interest-free" money obviously do not understand, or do not accept, the essentially non- self-liquidating nature of the financial price-system, quite aside from interest, to which latter they appear ascribe the whole cause of our economic problems.  There is difference between debt incurred by issue of "interest-free" money and money issued without incurring new debt. 
Wally


On 5-Nov-08, at 10:57 PM, Joe Thomson wrote:

Hi Bill (McGunnigle),
 
I have no doubt that a rise in interest rates can indeed have serious consequences for those who must pay those increased charges from an income that hasn't increased. 
 
But as a practical matter wouldn't it make more sense to try to determine "why" those interest rates have risen than to imagine that all would be "sweetness and light" if 'interest' itself could only be abolished?  Which would be  totally impractical to do if we want to preserve any measure of a free market economy and all the benefits it entails. 
 
The point is, 'interest' can be reduced in respect of its largest component, a 'premium' assessed for the risk of default, simply by reducing the risk of default. 
 
We can do this  on an overall, or macro-economic basis, through the proper application of the Social Credit prescriptions of the National Dividend and Compensated Price Discount.
 
These National 'accounting adjustments' ensure there is always going to be sufficient 'effective demand' present to enable 'real demand' to be fully satiated so long as there is the physical capacity available to fill it. 
 
They allow the rate of profit necessary to more fully amortize loans to be maintained, and with that capablility the 'risk of default', and the interest premium charged in respect of it, is either eliminated or greatly reduced.
 
In the whoile economy, itt could be reduced to the point where the interest cost on many well-secured loans would basically entail the cost of providing the financial service itself (the 'bookkeeping'), plus the minimum amount of profit to make it worthwhile anyone  providing it.
 
This method is practical.   The alternate idea that a 'government' could simply provide all the money 'interst-free' will NOT lead us towards any kind of 'economic' or 'political' democracy where the 'free-will' of each individual in "making his own Policy effective unto himself" will ever be allowed to flourish.
 
Regards,
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"

hI joe
        Sorry I am at it again. Your comments about interest are very pointed. If the equation is extrapolated and you postulate increased interest rates you very quickly reach a point where the whole of a single earner family's income becomes totally used up servicing the Mortgage debt. This has horrendous consequences on family life. I know by personal experience. I lost a wife because of that. I was forced to work to keep up with the needs of wife and family and grew apart from them. Result I now live on my own in lonely retirement. All because I allowed myself to be conned into the evil debt system. It has been a very hard lesson but it is one that convinced me of the iniquitious damage that the debt fuelled economy can do to an individual. I am now a dedicated monetary reformer.

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