| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan" | | Date: | Wednesday, November 12, 2008 17:53:57 (-0700) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <jmartinh @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5694 (written by Kenneth Palmerton) |
I can't see why inurance companies, pension funds etc. cannot provide the
dollars that young people need to buy their homes. My concern is that they
are not financed by bank inflation of the currency. They used to - and still
do so indirectly through the banking system.
I certainly don't think that borrowing and lending would be excluded under a
Social Credit regime.
Martin Hattersley, 5929-189 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
Phone & Fax (780) 483-5442
e-mail <jmartinh@shaw.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"
In-Reply-To: <A8EA3611-DE30-43FF-AC43-915B2089811D@shaw.ca>
Dear Wallace.
We are in complete agreement on that :-)
One issue that has engaged me, and many others is, how can we organise
available purchasing power to buy such items as a house, or rather a home.
As you say, on completion the large capital costs have been met, but we
have so far failed to have enough purchasing power at the time for the
transfer to the consumer, home owner, to go ahead smoothly.
Have you any thoughts on this Wallace ?
Ken.
-------- Original Message --------
*From:* Wallace Klinck <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
*To:* socialcredit@elistas.com
*Date:* Tue, 11 Nov 2008 01:50:13 -0700
The existing economic system cannot function without mortgaging the
future exponentially under the present financial accountancy
conventions. It is entirely dependent upon debt. When producers are
obviously able to provide the actual goods which are offered for sale
this is proof positive of the indisputable ability of the producing
system to deliver. Failure to sell the goods so created leads to
bankruptcy of the producer and collapse of the producing system. The
purpose of production is consumption. It is quite impossible to live
beyond one's physical means--you cannot eat next year's crop or drive
an automobile scheduled to come off the production line in a year's
time. If producers offer goods for sale and the consuming public
needs or desires them the only sane thing is to provide a mechanism
whereby the goods can be transferred without delay to the consumer and
for the consumer to have sufficient buying power to pay for them and
allow the producer to recover his costs with profit so that he can
continue to serve the community and make a living for himself. If
consumers had always at hand sufficient effective aggregate income to
pay full price for the goods at time of purchase the need to mortgage
one's future to obtain something of which the physical costs have
already been paid would be exposed for the blatant falsehood that it
is. Moreover, the slander that people are "living beyond their
means" would be exposed for the calumny that it is. When we talk
about living beyond our means we are talking in make-believe financial
terms, not in real terms--and the financial system is increasingly
divorced from correctly reflecting the physical economy. It delivers
an increasingly inadequate effective consumer income--"effective"
meaning being able to finally cancel the total financial costs of
production. A society cannot live beyond its actual physical means
(unless it borrows from beyond its borders) and the financial system
should be modified to ensure that distribution of total consumer
production is automatic and dynamic within each national
jurisdiction. There is absolutely no real need whatsoever for society
being put by a defective financial system between a "rock and a hard
place", or given a choice of being "shot or boiled in oil"--of being
put to work producing all sorts of wealth but allowed to access it
only under the burden of exponentially increasing and eventually
impossible debt obligation leading to inevitable default and
foreclosure on the fruits of their long efforts by the financial
banking system which falsely claims ownership of the financial credits
which they alone have a monopoly to create. Of course, it has been
said that "bankers will be bankers" but the final blame lies with our
mindless, corrupt or treasonous governments which fail to break the
credit (debt) monopoly of the banking system by introducing into the
price-system and extraneous stream of consumer credits issued without
incurring debt and capable of rendering the financial system self-
liquidating. Ultimately, the blame lies with a somnolent and ignorant
population which neglects to accept the civic responsibility of
understanding these issues and exerting effective pressure upon
elected representatives to ensure that the requisite changes are put
into effect. Unfortunately, finance and the media are "concentric"
and the power of propaganda which lies therewith has held a fatal
immobilizing and distracting power to hypnotize and so immobilize
society.
Sincerely
Wally
On 10-Nov-08, at 5:47 PM, William Hugh McGunnigle wrote:
> HI Kenneth
> Hope you got my previous comment which appers to cut
> across some of your observations in this reply. I do asgree with
> your comments entirely. One could say that the debt funding system
> depends upon conning the gullible into overspending and mortgaging
> their future. Would you agree with that statement? Not a
> particularly ethical way to run the world, but when were bankers
> ever really ethical?
> Bill McGunnigle
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Palmerton"
<kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
> >
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 1:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"
>
>
>> In-Reply-To: <002c01c941dc$96bd51d0$f682c67c@HomePC>
>> Dear William.
>>
>> There, I think, you have put your finger on the main reason Usury
>> has been
>> condemned over the millennia, on moral grounds.
>>
>> The Usurer is taking advantage of anothers need. Yes I know it is,
>> and can
>> be, argued that much of this is not need, but wants, but that is,
>> In my
>> opinion, merely an extension of an argument made possible by the
>> existence
>> of goods and services that would not, and could not, be consumed
>> otherwise.
>>
>> As Adam Smith observed "The whole aim and object of production, is
>> consumption".
>>
>> Ken.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> *From:* "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>> *To:* <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> *Date:* Sun, 9 Nov 2008 09:00:02 +1300
>>
>> hI JOE
>> AS usual you have pointed out solid arguments about the
>> incurrance
>> of interest payments. The standard reply by "orthodox economists" is
>> always "the market will decide interest rates". To me this is a
>> piece of
>> pink cloud cukooland thinking related to the "flat earth" theorists
>> era, A
>> blind faith in an unproven and unsupported piece of speculation. I
>> have
>> never been able to get a proper answer from any of these economists
>> about
>> what comprises "the market". or any explanation why "market forces"
>> should
>> actually influence intrerest rates apart from greedy bankers taking
>> advantage of the need for funds to be made available for needed
>> expansion
>> of commercial activity and thereby deliberately increasing interest
>> rates
>> until no one will borrow from them anymore. It has been obvious to
>> me for
>> many years that this chaotic situation must eventually collapse
>> under its
>> own instabity, but somehow we have seen international collusion
>> between
>> governments to cloke this problem. I tyhink that now China and
>> India are
>> now more fully integrastred into the worlds economic cash flow that
>> the
>> end is in sight. Much of the blostering of the present system has
>> come
>> about because many highly skilled tasks have been transferred to
>> those
>> countries becausde of lower labour costs. Now those countries are
>> beginning to feel their economic miuscles on the world economy and
>> will no
>> doubt exercise that muscle in the same way that the USA did in the
>> late
>> `19th and early 20th centruries. It will create a radical shift in
>> the
>> world's power base from Western Europe and North America to Asia. The
>> consequencese of this will be a progressive impoverishness for the
>> West,
>> and possibly conflict between the two areas for world domination.
>> Not a
>> pleasant scenario for the rest of the human race.
>> Bill MCGunnigle
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Thomson
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"
>>
>>
>> Hi Bill (McGunnigle),
>>
>> I have no doubt that a rise in interest rates can indeed have serious
>> consequences for those who must pay those increased charges from an
>> income
>> that hasn't increased.
>>
>> But as a practical matter wouldn't it make more sense to try to
>> determine "why" those interest rates have risen than to imagine
>> that all
>> would be "sweetness and light" if 'interest' itself could only be
>> abolished? Which would be totally impractical to do if we want to
>> preserve any measure of a free market economy and all the benefits it
>> entails.
>>
>> The point is, 'interest' can be reduced in respect of its largest
>> component, a 'premium' assessed for the risk of default, simply by
>> reducing the risk of default.
>>
>> We can do this on an overall, or macro-economic basis, through the
>> proper application of the Social Credit prescriptions of the National
>> Dividend and Compensated Price Discount.
>>
>> These National 'accounting adjustments' ensure there is always
>> going to
>> be sufficient 'effective demand' present to enable 'real demand' to
>> be
>> fully satiated so long as there is the physical capacity available
>> to fill
>> it.
>>
>> They allow the rate of profit necessary to more fully amortize
>> loans to
>> be maintained, and with that capablility the 'risk of default', and
>> the
>> interest premium charged in respect of it, is either eliminated or
>> greatly
>> reduced.
>>
>> In the whoile economy, itt could be reduced to the point where the
>> interest cost on many well-secured loans would basically entail the
>> cost
>> of providing the financial service itself (the 'bookkeeping'), plus
>> the
>> minimum amount of profit to make it worthwhile anyone providing it.
>>
>> This method is practical. The alternate idea that a 'government'
>> could
>> simply provide all the money 'interst-free' will NOT lead us
>> towards any
>> kind of 'economic' or 'political' democracy where the 'free-will'
>> of each
>> individual in "making his own Policy effective unto himself" will
>> ever be
>> allowed to flourish.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Joe
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: William Hugh McGunnigle
>> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: The "Cook Plan"
>>
>>
>> hI joe
>> Sorry I am at it again. Your comments about interest are
>> very
>> pointed. If the equation is extrapolated and you postulate increased
>> interest rates you very quickly reach a point where the whole of a
>> single
>> earner family's income becomes totally used up servicing the Mortgage
>> debt. This has horrendous consequences on family life. I know by
>> personal
>> experience. I lost a wife because of that. I was forced to work to
>> keep up
>> with the needs of wife and family and grew apart from them. Result
>> I now
>> live on my own in lonely retirement. All because I allowed myself
>> to be
>> conned into the evil debt system. It has been a very hard lesson
>> but it is
>> one that convinced me of the iniquitious damage that the debt fuelled
>> economy can do to an individual. I am now a dedicated monetary
>> reformer.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list
>> are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
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