|
It was once ''well received'' in the 'socialist'
British Labour Party, too. Until they realized its "object" was something
which did not quite mesh with the kind of socialism envisioned
by many of that group's 'guiding lights'.
Joe
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 6:42
AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Finance:
Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
Funny you should mention
socialists. I'm not exactly a socialist, but I am a member of
SDUSA/Socialist Party of America. (if there were a proper Christian Democratic
party around I'd camp there!) We operate mostly within the Democratic
Party and are open to working with Republicans as well. The few times I have
brought up social credit in our national committee meetings it has been well
received.
-----Original Message-----
From: John G Rawson
<johngrawson@hotmail.com>
To: Socred elistas
<socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 12:51
am
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Finance: Credit "Crisis" and
"Depression"
Thanks, Wally. It's all becoming so transparently clear. But nobody important
seems to be catching on. Particularly not among the
Socialists. Regards.
John R.
From: wmklinck@shaw.caTo: socialcredit@elistas.comDate:
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:31:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Finance: Credit
"Crisis" and "Depression" The system, being increasingly non-
self-liquidating=2 0causes the financial world to resort to a proliferating
series of evermore tenuous artifices in an attempt to make an unworkable
system function. When the debt load becomes stretched to the limit of
any hope of debts being serviced confidence breaks and the whole thing comes
down like a deck of cards, making nonsense of all previous denials that the
financial system is unsound. Then the government, if wholesale ruination
is to be avoided, is more or less compelled to intervene with injection of
more of the same debt poison which caused the collapse in the first place.
They just borrow more money from the banking system and carry on by
further inflation of the money supply with it concomitant upward pressure on
the price-level, the inherent deficiency of purchasing-power being set off
further into the future by transforming the debt of the private sector into
permanent state debt. Of course we are all expected to work harder and
longer to meet the burden of inflating prices and increased taxation resulting
from interest charges on bloating state debt. Of course, attempts by the
state to reverse this situation by endeavoring to run on balanced budgets and
to pay down state debt just constricts the economy while leaving the community
of lesser governments and individuals to shoulder the burden of the false
debts that are increasing exponentially. We now witness the futility and
tragedy of this unrealistic policy in the recent so-called credit "meltdown"
and the inevitable contraction of the=2 0economy which must come from the
deflation. But it serves those who confiscate the wealth of others and
those who would enhance the power of the state by proposing increasing state
intervention in the lives of the people--serving also the policy of forcing
nations increasingly into mergers leading to an eventual global government..
Sincerely
Wally Klinck
On 24-Nov-08, at 12:23 PM, John G Rawson wrote:
That
is correct here too. I guess worldwide it was decided to abasndon what our
Monetary Commission referred to as a "blunt instrument" for controlling the
money supply in favour of controlling the "willing borrower" aspect by
varying the price, i.e. interest rates. But that doesn't alter the fact
that the banking system needs reserves for interbank transactions, and in
the present situation, to shore up payments for withdrawals of
deposits. In effect, this is what the "bailout" is trying to
do. Amazing how governments are required to keep out of banking,
except when the banks need h elp! Regards.
John R.
From: wmklinck@shaw.caTo: socialcredit@elistas.comDate:
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:03:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Finance:
Credit "Crisis" and "Depression" My understanding is that in Canada
reserve ratio requirements were discontinued some time ago for banks
operating under Federal Charter--and that only certain capital requirements
remain.
Wally
On 23-Nov-08, at 6:42 PM, John G Rawson wrote:
Sorry. It is
standard for banking anywhere. They can not lend their liabilities.
That applies to savings banks too, but it seems most of them draw on
commercial banks to back them. Money supply M1 (or M2 or higher)
includes, as its major component "demand deposits with the financial
institutions". That is where the money20paid into a bank goes. The only
ways banks could lend "money paid in to them" would be if the deposits
were reduced when this happened (they are not) or if by some way the money
magically doubled as it was paid in to the bank. That is not the point at
which it is considered to be multiplied. Every new bank loan results in
a creation of that amount of new money 'out of nothing'. But, of
course, banks need reserves to guard their deposits. And also, under
fractional reserve banking, any bank that suffers complete loss of
confidence by the public must go broke. That is where the relevance of the
reserve/deposit ratio comes in. Regards. John
R
From: telergy@bigpond.comTo: socialcredit@elistas.comDate:
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:19:07 +1100 Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Finance:
Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
Well John R
it differs in different Nation States. In the US, I
think Clinton removed the seperation of lending banks and investment
banks,so that they can do both.
Australia's bank regulators kept ratios to about
10%, quite healthy compared to US and Europe.
George Jr and Greenspan don't believe in
regulation.
The best overview I get is from following
speeches at BIS (Bank of International Settlements) where central bankers
they openly talkabout increasing liquidity by lowering the ratios for
their banks.
My easy english version goes
"Imagine a money lender around AD 10. He has a bag
of gold, and people want to borrow some. More people want a loan than the
amount of gold he has. He realises that, by issuing tokens, he can extend
credit to all who want some, assuming that the debtors are a good risk,
and will be paying it back on time."
cheers
Graeme Taylor
ps Whatever has happened to all that gold in Fort
Knox?
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008
7:36 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit]
Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
It is also a totally wrong explanation, and a not
uncommon error. 2% reserve ratio means $100 of loans for every ÂŁ2 of
RESERVES. Since loans create deposits, that ratio could never be
attained under any circumstances where deposits are concerned. The
writer forgot that bank deposits are their liabilities, and can never be
lent.
Regards.
John R.
From: wmklinck@shaw.ca
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Date:
Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:08:02 -0700
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Finance:
Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
This not really an alternate
explanation. It is simply the false explanation which has been
promulgated from establishment sources. We are well aware that
every imaginable artifice involving the extension of debt has been
devised to make the economy function under a fundamentally and fatally
defective and unworkable financial system. What do you mean by
saying that you are "pretty well over the soc red concept"? Do
you mean that you possess a good understanding of it?--or that you hold
little or no hope of it being an effective solution to financial and
economic problems of the industrialized world? Social Crediters
intend to make it relevant and we cannot afford to heed defeatist
opinions. We are currently provided with an almost unprecedented
opportunity to advance our cause and we must press on with increasing
intensity. So--down with hesitation and doubt and on with the job!
I would not hold out much hope from Barak Obama's term of office.
Already he has declared his intent to provide "jobs" for the
population--hardly a Social Credit policy.
Wally
On 21-Nov-08, at 8:47 PM, Graeme Taylor wrote:
Herewith an alternate
explanation
Because Green spam believed in the market
and self-correction of itself, he saw no need to regulate the lending
(reserve) ratios of the banks. Thus, it went below 2%.
That is, for every two dollars deposit, a
hundred in loans.
Europe's banks, attempting to maintain
market share, dropped their ratios down to 4 or 5%. Easy money
for borrowing, and a race to the bottom.
The CHinese Banks, in August
began by dropping their ratio for their Rural Bank to below 17%
so as to increase liquidity in the hope that rual incomes could start
to catch up to urban ones.
Now, I guess, they have dropped
their Infrastructure Bank's ratios as an economic stimulus
package.
Gordon Brown thought the best thing to do
is to invest in the banks. Yep. More money in the coffers helps raise
the lending ratios of their banks.
With a 2% ratio, (fractional reserve
money backed by virtually nothing), only a small proportion of debtors
going bankrupt sends the bank belly up.
I do hope that Barack gets better advice
than George Jr got.
I'm pretty over the soc cred concept.
Seriously, with up to 20% of the economy being illicit (drugs,
extortion), no perfect formula is gonna work, same as with people
going bankrupt.
cheers
Graeme Taylor
-----
Original Message -----
Sent: Friday,
November 21, 2008 10:12 PM
Subject: [socialcredit]
Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
This message has been sent to all Members of the Canadian House
of Commons:
I am forwarding a document outlining the basic
and underlying, as opposed to superficial, causes of the
current disastrous and ruinous credit "crisis" and the primary
essential remedial measures required to effect an honest and stable
financial system with it corollary, a viable producing and consuming
economic system. Also attached is a short PDF showing how the
Keynesian equations can be modified to achieve these ends. (Not included
in this posting.)
Yours sincerely
Wallace M.
Klinck
FINANCE, DEBT AND
DEPRESSION
The
so-called economic and financial "experts" are apparently totally
oblivious to the fact that the financial price-system is
fundamentally and increasingly non- self-liquidating. Consequently,
they blame the credit "meltdown" and ensuing economic collapse on
excessive extension of loans (debt) issued primarily without
adequate regulatory legislation. The essential problem is that while
the convention is that industry, in order to remain viable, must
recover its financial costs in final prices, the existing financial
system makes this a mathematical impossibility.
Final
price appears at the retail level. Consumers, being at the end of
the economic process, are required through expenditure of their
income, to liquidate all the financial costs of production. That is
a perfectly reasonable and accepted accountancy convention. The crux
of the liquidity failure is that, primarily due to the need for
industry to add to ret ail prices certain increasing allocated
charges in respect of capital, which do not constitute payment of
income in the same cycle of production, consumers are increasingly
short of income by which to meet the total retail prices necessarily
charged by industry.
Obviously,
if nothing intervened the economy would shut down. Of course, what
happens is that the consumer is evermore under necessity of
borrowing (contracting debt obligations) from the banking system,
that creates out of nothing the money that it lends as a repayable
debt. Eventually the debt overload so erodes the liquidity of the
financial system and the ability of consumers to contract and
service debt that consumers can no longer keep borrowing and/or
lenders cease to provide loans (in preparation for a "clean out" by
foreclosure upon the assets of the people who have laboured to
produce and acquire real wealth).
There
is nothing new about this confiscatory process. It has been
characteristic of the credit system for hundreds of years—going back
before creation
of the Bank of England in 1694. It can only be a deliberate policy
on the part of the few who are insiders "in the kno w" to confiscate
property and centralize both ownership of property and political
power.
If
the "experts" advice were followed and lending was simply
restricted, this would just slow down the development of economic
activity in spite of the national real capacity to conduct and
expand that activity. This would intensify the problem of providing
"jobs" with which they seem to be so strangely concerned—showing
again a complete confusion of mind about the purpose of
production—which purpose is not to provide work for humanity but to
provide desired goods and services with maximum efficiency—which
process involves minimization of all costs, including that of
labour. The purpose of production is consumption—not the creation of
work.
The
unfathomable fact is that so-called orthodox "economists" and public
policy makers think first of financial factors and last of real,
physical factors— and mindlessly accept the financial system as a
determinant of physical activity. Money is simply a unit of account
and should merely reflect, and never control, our physical
activity. The
whole thing, being a complete departure from reality, is quite
psychotic.
We
are told by our “expert” advisers that we are being cast into an
economic recession or slow down in actual physical production. Have
we suddenly lost our energy resources (our gas, petroleum and
electrical power), our mines and minerals, our information and
transportation services, our forests, our cultural heritage of
know-how and production expertise, etc.? Have our citizens suddenly
decided to sit down on their posteriors and not do anything any
more—has everyone suddenly become divested of motivation,
intelligence and capability? Our course not. On a physical level
everything remains essentially unchanged with an already astonishing
technological efficiency and productivity only increasing
exponentially over time. Yet, we are informed by the “experts” that
we are slipping inevitably into a recession involving the slow down
of real production. Anybody who believes this to be unavoidable, as
though some consequence natural law, and is so perverse as to
continue to believe it in the face of actual facts, probably fully
deserves the consequences of their stupidity.
As,
William Aberhart, Social Credit Premier of the Province of Alberta
said years ago, "If the people haven't suffered enough, it is20their
God-given right to suffer some more." I think people are
guilt-ridden, because of sedulously inculcated false moral
imperatives, such as the adulation of work for it’s own sake.
Consequently they are masochistic, and therefore welcome misery as a
penance and cathartic for their induced artificial and misguided
feelings of guilt. The whole thing is quite mad.
The
physical cost of production is fully met when goods arrive completed
at retail. There is no need whatsoever for consumer debt. What is
required before all else is a secondary flow of consumer credits
injected extraneously into the price-system without debt as Consumer
Dividends and to effect Compensated (lowered) Retail Prices at point
of sale in order to permit consumers full, immediate and dynamic
access to all retail goods—and to balance the price-system, so
allowing business to recover its financial costs so that it can
continue to serve the community if consumers so desire.
As
C. H. Douglas, founder of the Social Credit movement who offered the
only realistic alternative to currently accepted and destructive
Keynesian debt finance, said, "society is hypnotized and only a
drastic dehypnotization can save it." How much abuse does it take t
o arouse a placid and somnolent public?
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