| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression" | | Date: | Wednesday, December 3, 2008 14:57:22 (-0700) | | From: | Martin Hattersley <jmartinh @....ca>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5750 (written by John G Rawson) |
I think that one point to remember is that with a National Credit Office to
regulate the supply of purchasing power, we won't have the enormous swings
between "buyer's market" and "seller's market" that we have at present under
our debt-finance system. It will be a "balanced market" where the supply of
purchasing power is adequate to support a reasonable level of production and
consumption at reasonable prices. What is reasonable will be decided by the
way the public decides to spend its money.
Martin Hattersley, 5929-189 St.,
EDMONTON AB CANADA T6M 2J1
Phone & Fax (780) 483-5442
e-mail <jmartinh@shaw.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>
To: "Socred elistas" <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2008 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"
I hadn't thought of that mechanism. Everyone (in Douglas day) collecting a
paper chase of invoices and taking them to their bank periodically. I can
visualise divorces when wife forgets to keep invoices!
Probably easier now if everyone uses credit cards.
However, there would be nothing to stop customers accepting higher prices
because "ther govt." is going to refund part.
We have reached an impasse. I aver that it could allow inflation of prices,
and I give reasons. Others aver it would not, through competition, without
giving reasons.
We need to go further into the matter, but I don't know how to start until
someone tells me just how competition would overcome the problem in a
sellers market. Or is SC going to put just slightly less than equated purch.
power into circulation to preserve a buyers market? I have never seen that
postulated.
Regards.
John R.> Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:55:22 -0800> From:
william_b_ryan@yahoo.com> To: socialcredit@elistas.com> Subject: RE:
[socialcredit] Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression"> > "Others insist
that it shall be a discount of a certain percentage of the price, whatever
it is. Which, to me, in the sellers market that SC would establish, would
lay the situation completely open to
profiteering."> --------------------------------------------------------->
-------------------------------------------------------->
> A fixed-percentage discount off the varying price is how Douglas proposed
it. Why and how could this lead to profiteering? Douglas proposed that it be
paid directly to consumers as a rebate on their sales invoices, lowering the
effective price of their purchases. Why do you think this would create a
"sellers' market"? One intended effect would be to increase the rate of
profit, thereby increasing the quantity and array of products and services
reaching the point of retail, inasmuch as more production would be
profitable than otherwise would be the case, which is hardly "profiteering."
I don't believe it is a particularly difficult concept to understand. And it
would be a very powerful tool to combat the current recession.> > I believe
that the Fed could legally send out checks right now, in dividends and
rebates directly to final consumers, without additional implementing
legislation. I believe they already have the legal authority to do so.> >
Instead, it is creating hundreds of billions of dollars in new money in its
stimulus program to purchase various securities, and in various loan
programs, as Chairman Bernanke said in his speech in Austin earlier today.
It is the extension of the "trickle down from Wall Street" program they have
always followed, in their "pushing on a string" effort to respond to
changing circumstances. I've appended the AP report of that speech
below:> ---------------------------------------------------------> > F-A-I-R
U-S-E C-L-A-I-M-E-D> > December 1, 2008> Bernanke: lower interest rates are
"feasible"> By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer Jeannine Aversa, Ap
Economics Writer> > WASHINGTON – Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke said
Monday that further interest-rate cuts are "certainly feasible," but he
warned there are limits to how much such action would revive an economy
likely to stay weak well into next year.> > The Fed's key interest rate now
stands at 1 percent, a level seen only once before in the last half-century.
To help lift the country out of a recession that started in December of last
year, many economists predict Bernanke and his colleagues will drop the rate
again at their next meeting on Dec. 15-16.> > Bernanke spoke just hours
after the National Bureau of Economic Research announced that the U.S.
economy has been in a recession since December 2007.> > He didn't mention
the NBER's finding in his speech to business leaders in Austin, Texas, nor
in answering questions afterward. However, Bernanke warned that the economy
likely will remain stuck in a slump.> > "Even if the functioning of
financial markets continues to improve, economic conditions will probably
remain weak for a time," he said.> > In his speech, Bernanke noted that the
bracing impact of the Fed's aggressive rate reductions has been somewhat
stymied by the worst credit and financial crises to hit the world economy
since the 1930s. Despite lower borrowing costs ordered by the Fed, skittish
banks have been reluctant to lend money to people and businesses, a vicious
cycle that has seriously hobbled the U.S. economy.> > "Although further
reductions ... are certainly feasible, at this point the scope for using
conventional interest rate policies to support the economy is obviously
limited," Bernanke said in the speech. The Fed can lower its key rate only
so far — to zero — and it's getting ever closer to that threshold.> >
Bernanke said there are other ways that the Fed might bolster economic
activity.> > The Fed, for instance, could buy longer-term Treasury or agency
securities on the open market in substantial quantities, he said. This might
lower rates on these securities, "thus helping to spur aggregate demand,"
Bernanke said.> > Given the limits to how low the Fed can go in reducing
interest rates, the central bank over the past year has resorted to a flurry
of other radical — and often unprecedented actions — with the hope of
busting through credit jams and getting financial markets operating more
normally.> > It has ramped up cash and other types of loans to financial
institutions, started buying mounds of short-term debt that companies rely
on for day-to-day operations like paying salaries and buying supplies, and
expanded its emergency lending program to investment firms.> > Just last
week the Fed announced two new programs aimed at increasing the availability
and lowering the costs of credit card loans, auto loans, student loans and
home mortgages.> > The Fed last week said it would purchase $200 billion in
securities backed by different types of consumer debt. That market
essentially froze in October, making such loans harder to obtain while
carrying higher interest rates.> > The Fed also said it would spend $500
billion to purchase mortgage-backed securities guaranteed by mortgage giants
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and another $100 billion to directly purchase
mortgages held by Fannie, Freddie and the Federal Home Loan Banks.> >
Bernanke said the Fed will continue to look for innovative ways to break
through the credit logjams.> > "We at the Federal Reserve and our colleagues
at other federal agencies will carefully monitor the conditions of all key
financial institutions and stand ready to act as needed to preserve their
viability in this difficult financial environment," Bernanke said.> > The
NBER — a private, nonprofit research organization — said its group of
academic economists who determine business cycles met on Friday and decided
that the country tipped into recession in December 2007. The economy
contracted in the final quarter of last year.> > The economy jolted into
reverse again in the summer. Many economists predict it is still shrinking
now and will continue to do so through the first quarter of next year.> >
Consumers — major shapers of national economic activity — likely will keep
cutting back on their spending, he said Consumers have been reeling from job
losses, hard-to-get credit and hits to their wealth from sinking home values
and tanking portfolio investments.> > In October, the unemployment rate
zoomed to 6.5 percent, a 14-year high. So far this year, 1.2 million
positions have disappeared. The jobless rate is likely to climb to 8 percent
or higher next year.> > A student of the Great Depression, Bernanke said the
current period of economic woe bears "no comparison in terms of severity" to
the 1930s.> > ____> > AP Business Writer John Porretto contributed to this
report from Austin.> > > ----------------original message------------------>
> RE: [socialcredit] Finance: Credit "Crisis" and "Depression" > Monday,
December 1, 2008 1:46 PM> From: "John G Rawson" <johngrawson@hotmail.com>>
To: "Socred elistas" <socialcredit@elistas.com>> > This discussion is purely
with the mechanism of paying it, for which I see no problems and several
solutions, but:> > Martin uses the term "just price" which implies
conditions for its payment, i.e. a means of containing price inflation. How
do we establish "just prices" for a multitude's multitude of items, each in
different parts of a country each with different transport costs, local
taxes, etc?> > Others insist that it shall be a discount of a certain
percentage of the price, whatever it is. Which, to me, in the sellers market
that SC would establish, would lay the situation completely open to
profiteering.> A bureaucratic nightmare to beat all socialist efforts
anywhere, or uncontrolled inflation?> > If someone can answer these points,
I too will favour the system. But I've been asking for these answers for
decades now.> > John R.> > >
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