| Subject: | RE: [socialcredit] Looking For Info | | Date: | Friday, January 9, 2009 22:04:32 (-0700) | | From: | helge nome <helgenome @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 5890 (written by Per Almgren) |
It is unfortunate that a link appears to have been established, in the popular mind, between Social Credit and anti-semitism. That gives the bankers a tool to divide and conquer the movement, which is what seems to have happened here in Alberta during the days of the provincial Socred government.
The power of the state should be a concern for all citizens, irrespective of the kind of government elected into office.
The best way of keeping a government honest is to have a healthy democracy where citizens take an active part in decision making by their government. And that requires an unbiased press corps and an impartial judicial system.
Money has a strange way of infiltrating all of these in a corrosive way, as evidenced by what is happening around us at this time.
Ideas which may seem to be "heretical" at first glance, in the field of economics, as in other areas of intellectual endeavour, may be deserving of a second look and further consideration before being discarded. (Remember Copernicus, Galileo and the Roman Catholic Church).
I agree with Per that we shall have to adapt to the present time and circumstances without backing away from the belief that the wealth of nations belong to the people who make up those nations, rather than the bankers who are merely the managers of that wealth, not the owners that they pretend to be.
Regards,
Helge Nome
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 22:56:02 +0100
> From: almgren_per@telia.com
> To: socialcredit@elistas.com
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Looking For Info
>
> Joe Thomson skrev:
> > (John Rawson wrote:-) Yes, Joe, the money was issued, not lent into
> > circulation. And yes, we did lead the world out of the slump. Along,
> > of course, with Nazi Germany, which used similar methods to build
> > autobahns etc. which unfortunate coincidence gives our opponents a
> > chance to link us further with anti-semitism.
> >
> > (Joe replies:-) Linking "us further with anti-semitism" would be the
> > least of my concerns over this method of approach, John. You may not
> > be aware of it, but what you are proposing is the building of a
> > totalitarian "slave state", not a one in which "individual" freedom
> > will be allowed to develop and flourish. That the "slaves" will be
> > well fed and quartered, while they're needed, is of little
> > consequence. They're still "slaves", beholden for their continued
> > sustenance to "servitude" to the "State" and the "system" it imposes
> > on them.
> In my opinion this writing of "slave state" is not what John describes.
> My impression now is that there is to much arguing of what Douglas have
> expressed in a special situation in this list and I think that if Social
> Credit should be of any use in the future, it must be allowed to adjust
> to realities of to-day. If no new thinking is accepted, there is not
> much use to discuss, it would just be a seminar of history, not a forum
> for promoting useful ideas for practical use in the society.
> >
> > This is the very antithesis of "Social Credit". It is "Fascism"
> > without the more odious facets of that failed system fully revealing
> > themselves. Which they soon would, if ever it were imposed. It is
> > interesting that we have been duped into calling this 'anti-semitism'
> > considering where such a policy likely originated.
> This could not be called Fascism in the common meaning of the word.
>
> Per Almgren
> >
> > (John continues:-) And, of course, your argument that new money has to
> > be repaid means that any used for the National Dividend etc. would be
> > in the same category, which is ridiculous.
> >
> > (Joe replies:-) It is "repaid", John. It cancels that portion of
> > /existing/ debt charges that could not otherwise be repaid. Without
> > creating ANOTHER debt charge in the process. It is an "accounting
> > adjustment" carried out in the economy as a whole to more fully allow
> > the overall costs of production to be FINANCIALLY, as well as
> > 'physically', self-liquidating with consumption.
> >
> >
> > (John continues:-) An independent Credit Authority would assess how
> > much new money needed to be put into circulation during the ensuing
> > period without causing demand inflation. What that money was to be
> > used for would be a political decision, even if it only considered a
> > divarication between discount funds and those for a dividend. Or
> > reducing taxation.
> >
> > (Joe replies:-) I can generally agree with that provided it be
> > realized this "new money" is applied to reducing prices to Consumers
> > FIRST, not to funding other things which have additional "costs".
> >
> > Regards,
> > Joe
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* John G Rawson <mailto:johngrawson@hotmail.com>
> > *To:* Socred elistas <mailto:socialcredit@elistas.com>
> > *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 1:07 PM
> > *Subject:* RE: [socialcredit] Looking For Info
> >
> > For the first parts, you have valid points. I have never debated
> > whether or not some form of price control might be necessary. But
> > based on the rather inane information that had previously been
> > circulated, I could not see how this particular mechanism could be
> > practicable. Your new information at least clears part of that
> > objection.
> > Yes, Joe, the money was issued, not lent into circulation. And
> > yes, we did lead the world out of the slump. Along, of course,
> > with Nazi Germany, which used similar methods to build autobahns
> > etc. which unfortunate coincidence gives our opponents a chance to
> > link us further with anti-semitism.
> > And, of course, your argument that new money has to be repaid
> > means that any used for the National Dividend etc. would be in the
> > same category, which is ridiculous. An independent Credit
> > Authority would assess how much new money needed to be put into
> > circulation during the ensuing period without causing demand
> > inflation. What that money was to be used for would be a political
> > decision, even if it only considered a divarication between
> > discount funds and those for a dividend. Or reducing taxation.
> > The Ottawa agreement did nothing to increase trade or spending
> > power. All it did was to close shop against other nations. And
> > one of its minor sidelines was to force us to buy useless strains
> > of forest seed from you rather than the USA. The Douglas fir
> > appeared to have come from somewhere inside the arctic circle,
> > because the lengtrh of day effect made it bud burst far too early
> > in the spring so that it got frost-burned in our much milder
> > climate in the central Nth. Is. Then it hardened off about
> > Christmas and ceased growing through all the warm summer and
> > autumn period. I remember a compartment in Kaingaroa Forest
> > planted with both this strain and a normal one from Washington or
> > wherever. The boundary looked like a sudden cliff face as the
> > canopy dropped from one to the other.The only point I was making
> > over food subsidies was that we had a humanitarian government that
> > helped both public health and a major industry by the use of
> > debt-free credit. Rooseveldt's New Deal did something the same
> > thing on borrowed money. War expenditure finallly brought us right
> > out, and as a point of interest NZ (with strict import controls)
> > came out of the war with zero overseas debt. (And a bureaucracy
> > subsidised less healthy white floured bread, not wholemeal!)
> > But the government didn't "have to" subsidise food. People were
> > starving and it used one method to help them. Coming from a
> > (broke, ex-serviceman's) farm, I never went hungry. But I knew men
> > my age whose developmenmt was stunted for that reason.
> > It seems we may have to revisit times like that before enough
> > people will again consider monetary reform. in any shape, SC or other.
> >
> > John R.
> >
>
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