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Go easy on the Guvs. The one who was G. of Norfolk Is and later NSW (hence Rawson Place in Seedney) obviously was a scholar and gentleman. I hope.
John R.
From: telergy@bigpond.com
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:26:56 +1100
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
Not to worry John
I like to say similar things to what Bill asserts, but without the class distinctions.
Indeed, like Australia, many of the colonies of the US were prisons too.
If only Britain had learned to deal with it's own social problems rather than export them, the world would be a very different place.
And let's face it Bill, the "officers" and "gentlemen" you reveer, would have been bottom of the heap upper class, or aspiring upper class, presumably without land holdings back in the dart. As for the early 'guvners', well, they probably goofed up being govner in Canada, or Rhodesia or something, and got sent to Niewwe Zeeland or Hollandia Novae as punishment.
I too find a lot of Australia's boasting, in sport, et al, to be a form of over compensating.
However, in terms of LETS, the oz tax office copied NZ tax laws when assessing applicability of consumption tax on transactions, so Bill, it's opposite to your comments.
cheers
Graeme Taylor
citizen of the British Colony called the Commonwealth of Australia. Interestingly, a Royal Commission is being undertaken about the bushfires, authorised by Liz Windsor, QE1 or 2.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:47 AM
Subject: RE: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
Let's drop this line, Bill. Victoria and particularly South Aus. were settled very like parts of our South Island, and have a right to be a bit up themselves too. Mind you, they may not have had as good a leavening of Scots as we have.
The top Aussie, like the top Yank, is as good as any we have, or better.
John R.
From: wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:23:16 +1300
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
HI Grame
Trust the Aussies to spoil a good thing, But since they are decended from the throwouts of British society [Convicts], they were bound to spot the loophole and close it. We New Zealanders were descended from voluntary free citizens and migrants. Marleborough in the northernmost part of the SOUTH island was said to be a "Gentleman's " province because all the original settlers were Gentlemen or at least Officers.
BILL McGunnigle
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:10 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
Interesting William
about the westcountry barter.
Don't try this at home, I suggest.
In Austalia, the tax office interprets their legislation such that, for barter/counter-trading, "points" earned are taxable if earned by a business entity, and if spent on legit expenses, deductible. Their GST (consumption tax) starts for entities that turn over 50,000 a year.
Indeed, tachnically, a tradesman can be interpretated as earning income if a friend pays for a favour with a six pack of beer.
For other entities, and I'm referencing LETS here, the earning of points is seen as being for social, hobby or past-time activities and not taxable as income.
But the reality is that the tax office can pick off whichever tax payer it chooses.
graeme t
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
hi helge
I believe that his this process has been in operation in the British West country for at least a century. It originated as a means of avoiding cash transfers that could be traced by the IRD. I know that the British IRD have been trying for decades to pin them down to try to levy heavy taxes on the westcountrymen. IT works as a type of barter system, but because no cash transfer takes place the IRD is unable to actually claim that the transactions can be defined as "income," or that the transactions are actually a financial agreement. CHallenges to this "bartersystem" in court have proven to be quite useless again because there has been no obvious transfer of funds. Income tax can only work if there is a financial transaction. NO money transfer = no financial transaction thus no income or expenditure by definition. The British IRD have been unable to devise any method of overcoming this legal barrier. because as soon as the IRD try to attribute a value to any barter transaction it is immediately challenged and those involved in the transaction always claim the actual values exchanged are minute fractions of the values attributed to them by the IRD. Usually so small that the transaction would not have attracted tax in the first place. This is a very powerful argument because basically the values set on a transaction under British law are those set by the poeple involved in the transaction. The IRD is not a participant in the transaction, and so therefore has no legal ability to arbitrarely dictate to the participanrts the values involved. Thus if one person decides to sell a Rolls Royce to another person for $1and a years supply of white wine the only cash exchange is $! for taxpurposes. The wine supply is in effect free and attracts no tax since this is not a financial transaction. That in a nutshell is how the Westcountrymen have driven the British IRD up the wall for many decades. The Westcountry is also a hot bed of smuggling too. The landlord of a local Pub that we used to visit in Teignmouth in Devon during the 1960's had a smugglers entrance under his pub, which we did not know was still in use by the local fishermen who had an agreement with counterparts in France. When the police and customs caught up with the publican whose pub was called quite appropriately "The Smugglers Arms". They found about $1000000 worth of smuggled goods in his cellars that he had not been able to distribute to his contacts in the local area.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:14 AM
Subject: [socialcredit] This Week's Opinion Column
Here is one for the bankers.
Regards,
Helge
Pen Meets Paper
Opinion by Helge Nome
As credit conditions get more difficult, local business people and private individuals will have an incentive to develop closer economic relationships with each other for mutual benefit. This can be done by using “I Owe You's” person to person.
For example, I, being a supplier of firewood at a price of $1 per cubic foot for good quality dry wood, can go to my neighbour, who has eggs for sale, and give him/her a “gift” certificate or IOU for 10 cubic feet of firewood in return for five dozen eggs. This could happen over a period of time until he has enough IOUs to lay claim on a whole winter's supply of firewood for himself by giving me back my IOUs.
This process could of course work in reverse as well and could include a person's labor for x number of hours, for example.
In our complex society, this local “money” (IOUs) would of course not replace legal tender, but it could be used to supplement conventional financial transactions (Canadian Tire “Dollars”, coupons, etc).
Depending on the reputation for reliability in meeting obligations, the IOUs from particular individuals would be more acceptable as tender for transactions than IOUs issued by less reliable individuals and would likely change hands several times before ending up back in the hands of the originator: If the egg producer unfailingly provides good eggs in return for his IOUs, he may not see them for months as they circulate throughout the community, buying all kinds of goods and services.
And this is where it gets interesting: As more people of diverse backgrounds get more involved in this trading, a sense of community can develop with unreliable individuals being weeded out because they don't honour their IOUs. Eventually someone might even turn into a local banker trading in IOUs.
The prospects are fascinating and IOUs don't contradict any laws because they are never claimed to be legal tender: Anyone can refuse to accept an IOU if he/she doesn't trust the originator, or for any reason whatsoever.
Let's beat the international bankers at their own game!
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