| Subject: | Re: [socialcredit] Re: Chinese Monetary Reform: Please check the website | | Date: | Thursday, April 2, 2009 14:55:12 (+1100) | | From: | Graeme Taylor <telergy @.......com>
|
| In reply to: | Message 6532 (written by William Hugh McGunnigle) |
The other thing of course, is a set fee can be the same for a loan of $100,
or $1,000,000.
Unless the fee is based on a percentage of the amount loaned i.e. interest,
then those that take out the biggest loans get the cheapest money, which
exacerbates economic stratification.
cheers
graeme taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Chinese Monetary Reform: Please check the
website
> HI Per
> With due respect I was simply pointing out that the principle is
> the same namely, deception, The fee requirement is a con to deceive
> people
> into believing they are receiving "Interest free money" when, in reality,
> they are still having to pay a large amount in excess of the original loan
> to eliminate the debt. The only positive about the system is that there is
> no ongoing extra payment that compunds the debt over a period of time.
> Once
> the original debt is cleared then that is that. If the service fee is
> charged at regular intervals during the period of the loan, I cannot see
> that it is any different to an interest payment requirement. This is how
> the
> Italian bankers transferred the extra payment on their loans into an
> interest requirement using the excuse that it was easier for accounting
> purposes to work the system that way. It also enabled them to obtain a
> greater return on their loan if the loan was taken out for a long period
> of
> time. I presume they also devised the "penal" interest rate at the same
> time to be charged on those who failed to meet the original loan repayment
> date. They also conned governments into having debtors prisons for those
> who
> defaulted on their loans, Although the mentality behind that procedure
> escapes me. If you imprison the debtor your remove from that debtor any
> chance of him or her earning enough to redeem the debt thus it would seem
> self defeating to me, but then again like many other accepted "norms" of
> this financial system it refelects a certain mentality that is unable to
> face reality and devise an effective system that does not collapse at
> regular intervals and is immune to manipulation by big financial
> organisations. I will not br able to reply to you Per for some time I am
> having some tiome out climbing mountains. I do this from time to time fpor
> relaxation and renewal. AS the psalmist says " I lift up mine eyes unto
> the
> hills from whence commoth my strength". Their size and majesty impress
> upon
> me the irrelevance of much of what mankind gets up to. The mountain I will
> be climbling is a dormant volcano that has not erupted for over 100
> years.
> Its local nieghbour last erupted in 1996-7. There are three in a line
> across
> the centre of our North Island. Two have eriuipted in the last 25 years.
> The
> third one has not . We are hoping for good weather.
> Cheers
> Bill McG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Per Almgren" <almgren_per@telia.com>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Chinese Monetary Reform: Please check the
> website
>
>
>> William Hugh McGunnigle skrev:
>>> HI Per
>>> I am, sorry to throw a Huge spanner into the works on this
>>> idea, but that is pricisely the method whereby this preesent system
>>> evolved.
>> You don't throw a Huge spanner into the works of JAK if that is what you
>> mean to say. I do agree with what you write below, but it is not a
>> parallell to what JAK is doing. If you read cerefully, there is no profit
>> paid out to anybody who owns money, and the salaries within the
>> organization are quite normal, maybe a little lower for the people at the
>> top of the organization. There is no heavy advertising costs, but there
>> are educational costs for courses given to the members, but that cost are
>> mainly covered by the yearly membership fee which amounts to
>> approximately
>> 25 USD.
>> Per Almgren
>>> IN the early days of banking the RC church made lending money under
>>> usury
>>> a venal sin and so no : RC christian was permitted to lend money at
>>> interest. The Italian Bankers got around that provision by contracting
>>> their loan to the cargo involved. they were paid on contract a sum
>>> greater than that which they had loaned the contractee. This was not
>>> strictly speaking a loan covered by usury and so it was quite acceptable
>>> to the church since technically the extra money owed was not an interest
>>> payment but a contracted obligation. Jews however, not being christian
>>> were not obligated to the church and so money lending with interest was
>>> a
>>> perfectly acceptable occupation for them, This is how the jews in Europe
>>> came to be associated with the banking system in the first place.
>>> Incidently I believe there are strictures against lending money at
>>> interest in the ISlamic code of living too, thus jews became money
>>> lenders in the Islamic parts of Europe too for the same reason that they
>>> became monmey lenders in the Christian parts of Europe. Much of the
>>> antisemitism in the world today stems from that era in both Hristian and
>>> Islamic territories, when the jewish money lender became an object of
>>> hatred because of the way they charged interest and made themselves
>>> wealthy at the expense of the traders and businessmen taking very little
>>> risk for great rewards. Charging fees on loans is a variation on the
>>> system I mentioned at the beggining of this discourse.
>>> regards
>>> Bill McG
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Per Almgren" <almgren_per@telia.com>
>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Re: Chinese Monetary Reform: Please check
>>> the
>>> website
>>>
>>>
>>>> The JAK Bank does not charge interest from its customers. They charge a
>>>> fee that covers the costs for administration of the saving-loans. No
>>>> interest is paid out to the savers, no interest or profit is paid out
>>>> to
>>>> the owners (the members of the bank), the amounts of the fees is
>>>> adjusted so that there on average is no ratained profit in the bank.
>>>> The
>>>> words interest income the JAK Bank and I myself define as an income due
>>>> solely to the ownership of something, mainly money. Compensating for
>>>> average losses is not considered to be an interest income.
>>>> Per Almgren
>>>>
>>>> william_b_ryan@yahoo.com skrev:
>>>>> "What is needed is that the system is free of interest and investors
>>>>> demand for profit."
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a rather peculiar comment coming from someone who pushes the
>>>>> JAK Bank, which charges a substantially higher rate of interest than
>>>>> conventional banks. That they claim to be "interest free" is a pure
>>>>> deceptive trade practice.
>>>>>
>>>>> What this indicates is a profound confusion as to how money, credit
>>>>> and
>>>>> the economy work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------original message-----------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] Chinese Monetary Reform: Please check the
>>>>> website
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 26, 2009 22:59:33 (+0100)
>>>>> From: Per Almgren <almgren_per @.....com> In reply to: Message 6498
>>>>> (written by Eric Encina)
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not think that we even need an international reserve currency.
>>>>> All
>>>>> currencies should be floating to each other. What is needed is that
>>>>> the
>>>>> system is free of interest and investors demand for profit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Per Almgren
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric Encina skrev:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>>>>> at
>>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email almgren_per@telia.com
>>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email almgren_per@telia.com
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email telergy@bigpond.com
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
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