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RE: Re: 100 percen John G R
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Re: Re: 100 percen Graeme T
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Re: question regar Jamie Wa
RE: 100 percent re John G R
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Re: Signs of the T William
Re: 100 percent re William
Re: Re: 100 percen Graeme T
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Re: 100 percent re Kenneth
Re: question regar Kenneth
Re: Signs of the T Kenneth
Re: Re: 100 percen Joe Thom
RE: question regar John G R
RE: Re: 100 percen John G R
Re: Re: 100 percen Graeme T
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Re: 100 percent re william_
RE: question regar John G R
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Re: True belief ra William
The Heart of Frede Arian F.
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Student Debt in Ca Wallace
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Re: Signs of the T William
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Why jobs disappear Per Almg
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Subject:Re: [socialcredit] 100 percent reserve system
Date:Wednesday, May 20, 2009  19:10:46 (+1200)
From:William Hugh McGunnigle <wmcgunn @.........nz>
In reply to:Message 6745 (written by Kenneth Palmerton)

Hi Ken
             Actually no, it was a mutually agreed scheme in operation over 
40 years ago. I only knew about it because I had a Girl friend whose parents 
were involved in the scheme. It was devised deliberately to evade Income 
tax. and it appeared to work quite effectively. It meant that people became 
quite affluent on relatively modest incomes, IT is quite possible that the 
LETS scheme evolved from it..
                  Bill McG
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [socialcredit] 100 percent reserve system


> In-Reply-To: <002801c9d77d$e36dd680$c882c67c@HomePC>
> Hi William.
>
> I assume you are referring to the LETS movement.
>
> (Local exchange trading scheme).
>
> In fact in recent years there have been more that 500 local schemes in
> action in the UK. And you are right about the interest by the revenue,
> they complain about losing both income tax revenue, and VAT.
>
> In negotiations the offer was made to them of full payment, in the
> currency of the scheme :-))))
>
> Not surprisingly the bureaucrats took a dim view of this, and declined. So
> on that front there was and is a standoff :-(
>
> The biggest scandal was concerning those claiming unemployment benefits,
> and some other claimants. It was widely recognised that these groups were
> those with the most to gain from such economic activity, particularly
> including what they had to contribute.
>
> The powers that be stood firm, claiming that there was "pecuniary
> advantage" to be had from membership, it must be deducted from benefits.
> The effects upon the movement I think has been decisive. It is not good
> enough that this becomes some middle class ghetto, confined to baby
> sitting circles, useful though they are.
>
> I have contributed many times that until you can go down the village
> street and buy a loaf of bread within the scheme, it will be an
> unfulfilled ideal :-(
>
> Ken.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
>
> From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 17:59:59 +1200
>
> HI Ken
>          I believer that the barter system  has been extensively used in
> the West Country of the UK for trading between nieghbours, much to the
> dismay of the IRD. Since no money has exchanged hands they have nothing to
> tax. Consequently there is considerable affluence in that area of the UK.
> It
> does require a great deal of trust between everyone, but it seems to
> work..
> I think this confirms your propoeal
>          Bill McG
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] 100 percent reserve system
>
>
>> In-Reply-To: <001101c9d68f$e9d41eb0$4982c67c@HomePC>
>> Hi William.
>>
>> Attempting to correct you would be an act of arrogance that I hope I can
>> resist.
>>
>> I think you are right. There is no chance of change in our national
>> circumstances without radical change in our monetary arrangements.
>>
>> I think we have tinkered long enough to know the truth of that.
>>
>> But that is not to say that independent groups and communities have no
>> part to play in making local improvements. Local currencies and barter
>> schemes have a place, but they will not set the world alight :-(
>>
>> Ken.
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>>
>> From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 13:36:29 +1200
>>
>> HI Ken
>>            WE seem to be at cross purposes here. I don't have any
>> argument
>> with what you are telling me. MY problem is " How do we find a system of
>> funding our increasing need for finance owing to our increased commercial
>> activity and increasing population  WITHOUT  relying on our corrupt
>> banking
>> system to provide that finance as  Interest bearibng debt? which is the
>> basic problem of our present system. I personally find the tenents of SC
>> to
>> be the only logical and effective alternative to our present system. It
> is
>> the reason wshy I am an SC monetary reformer. All other reformers appear
>> to
>> be simply those who tinker with the present system in the hope that it
>> will
>> heal itself. I am satisfied that only the radical approach proposed by SC
>> canm correct the present imbalances in financial dealings. THE whole
> basis
>> of financial thinking has to be changed before an  equitable and fair
>> system
>> of finacial dealing can occur. I believe that you agree with that
>> statement.
>> Correct me if I am wrong.
>>   Bill Mc G
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Kenneth Palmerton" <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>> Cc: <kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [socialcredit] 100 percent reserve system
>>
>>
>>> In-Reply-To: <003101c9d5fe$04d64310$8b82c67c@HomePC>
>>> Hi William.
>>>
>>> Of course our current system depends upon an escalation money supply.
>>>
>>> How else is the interest paid ?
>>>
>>> Ken.
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>
>>> From: "William Hugh McGunnigle" <wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz>
>>> To: <socialcredit@elistas.com>
>>> Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:12:08 +1200
>>>
>>> HI John
>>>          OUR financial system depends  on an ever increasing money
> supply
>>> to endsure ir continues to function. The source of the extra finance is
>>> the banking system. Unless that system is allowed to continue to provide
>>> that funding commercial activity will cease. ALL systems that assume
> that
>>> banks lend out their deposits are missing the point, and the 100%
> reserve
>>> system makes that stupid assumption. It is still a Fractional Reserve
>>> system, a system that has been discredited and mainly abandoned by most
>>> International Banks. You must not confuse the two functions of banks
>>> deposits are inviolate and cannot be on loaned they are safeguarded
>> unless
>>> the depositor specifically places them in an account that allows the
> bank
>>> tp speculate with them. EXtending Bank loans at interest is the
> secondary
>>> banking function where the bank acts as a security for a loan issued to
>>> people or institutions for commercial purposes. The two purposes are
>>> distinct and seperate, unfortunately the fractional reserve system
>>> connected the two
>>> to the confusion of everyone attempting to reform the monetary system.
> In
>>> Theory Banks could "lend out" any anount of money without holding any
>>> deposits at all. In reality banks could cancel all the loans it has
>>> without any real loss because it did not have the money to start off
>> with.
>>> IT created those "loans " out of in air. It took me a long time to
>> realise
>>> the significance of  that fact. Banks are never really at risk because
>>> they don't have the money to start off with and so cannot actually
> become
>>> bankrupt as a result of the loans it has issued. Only the central
> banking
>>> system which regulates the amount of credit a bank can issue can stop a
>>> bank from doing this function. I believe that under SC this issuing of
>>> credit should be controlled by an agency outside the banking system, and
>>> that the free slather that we are seeing at present has to be regulated
>>> far more stringently.
>>>         Bill Mc G
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>  From: John Hermann
>>>  To: socialcredit@elistas.com
>>>  Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 2:47 PM
>>>  Subject: [socialcredit] 100 percent reserve system
>>>
>>>
>>>  At 02:07 AM 15/05/2009, William Ryan wrote:
>>>
>>>    Firstly, there is a serious question that such a system could work
>>> even in theory.
>>>
>>>
>>>  What is a 100 percent reserve system?
>>>  by William Hummel
>>>
>>>  A 100 percent reserve system is not simply a special case of the
>>> fractional reserve system.  It would dramatically transform the monetary
>>> system and the role of banks, as summarized in the following:
>>>
>>>  In a 100 percent reserve system, banks would be required to hold
>>> reserves equal to their demand deposits.  Banks could no longer create
>>> deposits out of thin air by lending, as in a fractional reserve system,
>>> because there would be no reserves backing those deposits.  The entire
>>> money supply would consist of base money - demand deposits which are
>>> proxies for central bank funds, and cash in circulation.  Bank credit
>>> money would no longer exist.  The money supply could change only as a
>>> result of open market operations or lending by the central bank.
>>>
>>>  Banks would play two quite independent roles:  (1) depositories
>>> providing payment services to the public, and (2) profit-seeking
>>> enterprises we can call financial service companies (FSC).  In its role
>> as
>>> an FSC, a bank could only lend what it holds on deposit itself.  Such
>>> lending would transfer ownership of funds from its own account to the
>>> borrower's account, in the same way a non-bank FSC now lends.
>>>
>>>  Banks could acquire funds to lend by selling interest-earning
> securities
>>> such as money market funds.  However they would have little incentive to
>>> seek new demand deposits because such deposits offer no opportunity to
>>> create profitable investments for themselves.  In principle, banks could
>>> continue to offer CDs and savings deposits to acquire funds.  However
>>> without federal insurance coverage, those deposits would be functionally
>>> redundant with other instruments offered by FSCs, and are best
>> eliminated.
>>>
>>>  With the depository operations of little value to banks in a 100
> percent
>>> reserve system, it makes sense to consolidate all deposits into a single
>>> national depository run by the central bank.  It could be called the
>>> national bank, but should not be confused with the central bank itself,
>>> which is not a public depository and has other important functions to
>>> perform.  All deposits at the national bank would be non-earning
>>> transaction deposits which exist as entries in a single computer system.
>>> Verifying balances and making payments could be done instantly.  Deposit
>>> insurance would be eliminated since there is no risk when all deposits
>> are
>>> held in a national bank.
>>>
>>>  Addendum:
>>>        I don't think there is the slightest chance the U.S. Congress
>>> would enact the necessary legislation, considering the political power
> of
>>> the banking business.  But if it did, It would certainly change the
>>> landscape in the financial world.  Milton Friedman and a few other
>>> reputable economists have proposed a 100% reserve system, but I have
>> never
>>> seen anything to suggest they understood the full implications.
>>>        The fractional reserve system puts enormous leverage in the hands
>>> of large banks, which is often misused.  Far too much lending now goes
> to
>>> support purely speculative activity in the financial markets.  That
>>> distorts the markets, inflates asset prices, increases the fragility of
>>> the banking system, and serves no useful purpose in the real economy.
>> The
>>> single national depository version of a 100% reserve system, which I
>>> describe in more detail in  http://wfhummel.net/nationaldepository.html,
>>> would be a definite improvement in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmcgunn@maxnet.co.nz
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>>> kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
>>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Included Files:*
>>> am2file:001-HTML_Message.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email
>> kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email
> kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
>
> 


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