| Subject: | [socialcredit] [Fwd: +++SPAM+++ [socialcredit] Re: Why jobs disappear] | | Date: | Wednesday, June 3, 2009 09:52:32 (+1000) | | From: | terence <terence @................au>
|
Bill.
I agree with Wally that Pers analysis is focussed on jobs and therefore is
not 'aligned' with Social Credit principles.
However, I wish to take YOU to task on your comment that an Interest Free
economy is not possible.
In your 'market economy' you are mistakenly treating money as a commodity
- which comes at its own market-variable expense.
This also, is not 'aligned' to Social Credit principles, or even the real
nature of money.
Terence
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: +++SPAM+++ [socialcredit] Re: Why jobs disappear
From: william_b_ryan@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, June 3, 2009 12:52 am
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
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"To cover expenses, including interest payments, each of the businessmen
has to sell products for at least $2,200,000. We assume that the lender
buys products and services and pays taxes for a total of $500,000, which
thus is funneled in to the economy."
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You are assuming that the businessmen are obligated to pay interest in the
amount of $2,000,000, but the lenders are spending into circulation only
$500,000. You could just as easily assume that the lenders are spending
$2,500,000, which would be more than enough for the businessmen to pay
interest for the financial services they are receiving from the lenders.
Why don't you do that? Especially since that is what generally is
happening in the real world. You must make your hypothetical example
relevant to the world as it actually exists.
In a normally expanding economy, businessmen are spending more, at any
given moment, than what they are simultaneously receiving over their
retail counters. Yet they are recording a profit according to the rules
and conventions of double entry accounting. The economy is expanding and
wealth is increasing throughout the community. Transaction balances are
accumulating and not depleting. -
"It is therefore very important to think in new terms - we have to change
to an interest free economy."
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This is not possible if we are to have a market economy. In a market
economy the costs of production for goods and services, including
financial services, are allocated to the recipients of the goods and
services, in proportion to the quantity of goods and services being
received. Profit and loss means responding to the will of the consumers.
And there are real costs to supplying financial services, in bricks and
mortar, salaries, wages, and dividends to the lenders' stockholders.
The most pre-eminent "interest free" economy that has ever existed was
that of the old Soviet Union.
And it was an economy that was directed through bureaucratic fiat, rather
than a decentralized management responding to profit and loss in free
markets.
But that bureaucratic fiat was informed by pricing, product and
manufacturing information, gathered from the market economies through
espionage, that was fed into their Leontiefian style input-output tables.
Only through this process was the Soviet system able to emulate the
productivity of the market economies with any degree of efficiency. From
this process orders were dispatched to collective farm A to deliver so
many bushel baskets of tomatoes, and factory B to deliver so many
tractors.
--------------------original message---------------------
[socialcredit] Why jobs disappear
Monday, June 1, 2009 5:10 PM
From: "Per Almgren" <almgren_per@telia.com>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
This is why jobs disappear!
Imagine that you pick out a group of eleven people from society. Ten of
these are businessmen who themselves, or together with others, work to
produce a variety of products, each one within their specialized area. The
eleventh is a person lending money to the others.
The money lender charges 10% interest (to simplify the calculations) on
the money he lends. All businessmen borrow $2,000,000 each to cover
expenses for purchase of raw materials, wages to employees, plus their own
living expenses for one year. The whole amount of the loans is then used
to buy from the economy, which in principle consists of all other
businesses, people and institutions, including the sector financed by
taxes. The economy has received a sum of $20,000,000.
To cover expenses, including interest payments, each of the businessmen
has to sell products for at least $2,200,000. We assume that the lender
buys products and services and pays taxes for a total of $500,000, which
thus is funneled in to the economy. The market can then as a whole buy
products and services from the mentioned group of businessmen for
$20,500,000. But since each businessman has to sell $2,200,000 worth of
goods, as a group they have to sell $22,000,000 worth. One or more of the
businessmen will therefore not be able to sell products at the required
level if the rest of the economy doesn’t increase its debt by
$1,500,000. At least one or more of the business owners have to file for
bankruptcy or, if the lender agrees to it, borrow another $1,500,000.
The companies faced with the threat of bankruptcy have to fire employees
and/or loose the collateral for the loans. This will be repeated year
after year and more and more businessmen loose out, since all other groups
in society will be affected by the same economical principal. It is the
lenders, who already have more money than they need, who create a growing
debt as soon as they do not buy products and services or pay taxes on
their income from interest payments for the total amount earned.
It is therefore very important to think in new terms – we have to change
to an interest free economy. This would benefit the largest group of the
people while the existing system only benefits a small percentage of the
population.
Per Almgren
>From borrowers’ purchases 20,000,000
_From lender’s purchases 500,000_
To the economy 20,500,000
Purchases from the economy 20,500,000
Interest on loans -2,000,000
_Payments on loans -20,000,000_
Borrowers’ deficit -1,500,000
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