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Subject:[socialcredit] Replying to Terence: Why jobs disappear
Date:Wednesday, June 3, 2009  08:14:08 (-0700)
From:william_b_ryan <william_b_ryan @.....com>

"However, I wish to take YOU to task on your comment that an Interest Free
economy is not possible."

That's not quite what I said.  I said that it is not compatible with a market
economy.  I gave the example of the Soviet Union, which had exactly the financial
system that the "monetary reformers" want, though in their sublime ignorance,
they don't have a clue.  The Soviets didn't charge interest and made "interest
free" grants to favored enterprises.  It was all according to the central plan. 
And it lasted seventy years.  But it didn't exist in isolation.  It was able to
keep going only because of information from the market economies that was
continually fed into their input-output tables.  To produce so many trucks, you
have to input so many tons of steel; to produce so many tons of steel, you have
to input so many tons of coal.  Their vast espionage network was mostly devoted
to gathering this kind of information, not military information.

"In your 'market economy' you are mistakenly treating money as a commodity -
which comes at its own market-variable expense."

Money is not a commodity, but a financial service.  For forty thousand years,
entrepreneurs issued their own promissory notes.  The problem was that they were
redeemable only over the sales counter of the company store.

The principle service that the banks supply is that they exchange the
individualized promissory notes of their borrowers for the generalized promissory
notes of the banks, in the form of deposits, which are acceptable over every
sales counter in the economy.  This greatly expands the scope for trade and
commerce in the competitive market.

There are real costs of production for this service: in bricks and mortar, in
salaries, wages and dividends.

These are paid to members of the community in amounts that are more than
sufficient to pay interest back to the banks.

It is reciprocal economic activity.

"This also, is not 'aligned' to Social Credit principles, or even the real
nature of money."

It is very much aligned with the theory of C. H. Douglas, as expressed in his
books, articles and addresses:

"89. We make no apology for recurring to the dangerous disservice to genuine
reform which is offered by many 'monetary reformers' who mix up certain ill-
understood 'moral principles' with attempts at practical design. Amongst the
objects of their attack, an easy first is 'usury', which they would define, if
they troubled to define it, as the taking or giving of interest upon a money

"It should be understood without much difficulty that, in a predominantly gold
coinage system, if Moses Finkelstein lends one hundred gold sovereigns to John
Brown and demands back one hundred and twenty-five at the end of a year, and
continues that process, it is only a question of time before Moses owns all the
gold. But if John Brown makes a deposit in his bank, and the bank allows him
three per cent interest (no, Clarence, this is not a fairy story) there is no
available evidence to show that John Brown will come into possession of the bank.
What has happened is that John has shared, to a minute extent, in the profits of
the bank, in return for providing a smoke screen for the legend that banks only
relend money deposited with them. Now that this legend is exploded, John has been
informed that he is no longer wanted, and his share ceases. In fact, he is
charged for keeping his account. That is what the usury hunters have achieved. 

"But, you may say, the banks 'have no right' to create money to bribe John with
a decimal fraction of it. The only part of this sentence which makes sense is the
latter. John and others like him ought to have a larger 'interest' on their
deposit (really a dividend on the money created). The greatest nonsense, of much,
which has been written about the banking system is that which attacks their
dividends and interest paid on deposits. These items are the only fresh money,
corresponding to the normally increased real wealth, which comes into the hands
of John Citizen. The rest disappears into invisible reserves, such as those
colossal figures which Mr. Dalton will not disclose, which, by the acquisition of
the Bank 'of England', have now been made a free gift to Mr. Barney Baruch, et

"The Social Crediter 
(Jan. 12, 1946.)" 

A parenthetical comment:  Douglas has been criticized for being an
"anti-Semite."  I've found only about two hundred words published over his thirty
plus years of public service that might arguably be described as "anti-Semitic." 
Among those two hundred words is the reference to "Moses Finkelstein" above.  But
I think in this specific case he was contemptuously mocking the anti-Semitism of
the "usury hunters" he was excoriating.

-------------------original message----------------------

Subject: Re: Why jobs disappear]
Date: Wednesday, June 3, 2009  09:52:32 (+1000)
From: terence <terence@pristinelife.com.au> 


I agree with Wally that Pers analysis is focussed on jobs and therefore is not
'aligned' with Social Credit principles. 

However, I wish to take YOU to task on your comment that an Interest Free
economy is not possible. In your 'market economy' you are mistakenly treating
money as a commodity - which comes at its own market-variable expense. This also,
is not 'aligned' to Social Credit principles, or even the real nature of money.



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