A statement like that deserves detailed exemplification. Would you please
explain the points that are mythological?
The Guernsey experiment was not along
direct Social Credit lines, but unless someone is promoting direct lies, did show
how work could be done without debt. It also outlines a perfectly feasible scheme
under their then circumstances. The situation you refer to appears to have come
later, and probably now is correct.
John R.
>From: "William B. Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> >Reply-To:
socialcredit@elistas.com >To: ownership@cog.kent.edu, ijccr@yahoogroups.com,
socialcredit@elistas.com >Subject: [socialcredit] The Guernsey "Story" >Date:
Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:45:17 -0700 (PDT) > >What "pro debt money literatures" are
you referring >to? Please be more specific. > >By the way, the Guernsey "story"
is mostly myth; >fabrication to push the greenbacker agenda. Contrary >to what
you may suppose, the greenbacker agenda is >not anti-banking. It amalgamates
banking with >government--the ultimate supreme power. > >The system in Guernsey
is perfectly orthodox but with >this twist: it is an international banking haven
for >scoundrels and criminals, as are the Caymans and >Switzerland, where the
scoundrels and
criminals hide >their ill-gotten assets, a service for which the >banks profit.
> >The pay off from that to the "government" of Guernsey >is the source for the
island's supposed "prosperity." > >It is payoff by international banks for the
>sanctuary. > >In terms of the volume of transactions, few people >actually
use the local Guernsey pound notes except >the banks--even though they are
technically >"sterling," no-one wants them outside the islands. >Most
transactions in Guernsey, as elsewhere in the >world, are conducted through
deposit transfer. There >is some local circulation of the notes along side the
>British pound. > >The notes are delivered to the banks from the >printing
office when ordered by the banks, for which >the banks credit the government at
their face value. >If this is not pay-off for the haven that the
corrupt >government of Guernsey supplies them, I don't know >what could be. >
>The notes are not spent into circulation by the >government at the
government's volition. The >government can spend only what is allocated to them
>by the banks, when the banks determine it is in their >interest to credit the
government's account. > >The banks (according to the government's official
>website, "financial services" is the island's largest >industry) run the
show. > >I would not be surprised to find that the Guernsey >"story" really
emanates in the first instance from >that source. > >If so, the "monetary
reformers" who pass it along are >dupes, unwitting servants of the banks. >- > >
>--- Stan Szopa <sszopa@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > At 09:48 on Mon, 18 Apr 2005
"William B. Ryan" > >
<w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > "...Now, if that is not anti-Social Credit >
> propaganda > > emanating from the epicenter of banking, I don't > > know > >
what could be... > > > > ...Perhaps not so coincidentally, the date on this > >
Fed > > > > propaganda corresponds to the date of publication of > > > > the
self-styled "Austrian" economist Gary North's > >
>http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/2166_47e.htm > > anti-Social
Credit screed: *Salvation Through > > Inflation," on the identical theme. In my
mind, a > > coordinated effort cannot automatically be > > discounted. Of course,
that IS my "conspiracy > > theorist" self talking." > > > > And in mentioned the
Internet side: > > > > > >
>http://freebooks.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/2166_47e.htm > > > > "...In 1949, the great Austrian economist Ludwig Von > > Misis wrote then to refute Social Credit economics > > is > > to refute inflationary policies of every modern > > government. Yet until Salvation Through Inflation, > > no > > book had challenged the economics of Social Credit > > since the 1930's. > > Social Credit ideas have spread from England to > > Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa. > > Its > > proposed reform resembles the reform proposals of > > the > > late nineteenth-century's "greenback" movement in > > the > > United States, which still exists in the > > "underground" > > of America's far right. Salvation Through Inflation > > provides a comprehensive but easy-to-read
refutation > > of these ideas. It invokes the Bible and Austrian > > economic
analysis to challenge the economics of > > Social > > Credit..." > > > > Stan: >
> > > “The Salvation Through Inflation” has very > > controversial title, which
is immediately > > signalizing > > the full-fledge attack on any reformers of
present > > corrupt monetary system. > > > > To clarified from the practical
example (not from > > theories that were made up by many "great > > economists" >
> including the great Austrian economist Ludwig Von > > Misis) I would like to
present again: > > > > Guernsey phenomena: > > > >
http://www.monetary-reform.on.ca/archives/6d.shtml > > > > "...A little place
that has escaped the clutches of > > the banks by issuing its own
interest-free money is > > the little island of Guernsey. By controlling its > >
own > > money supply from 1816 onwards, Guernsey was able to > > avoid the
century old trap of borrowing when it > > didn't > > have to. The island has had
a stable and prosperous > > economy for over one hundred and fifty years. > >
Guernsey's income tax is only a "flat" 20%. It has > > no > > public debt, no
GST, no VAT, no inheritance tax, no > > capital gains tax, and almost no
inflation... > > > > ...In 1816, they decided to issue £6,000 of their > > own >
> "interest-free" Guernsey State Notes. This was in > > addition to the current
supply of English pounds > > which > > two main banks were circulating on the
island > > already. > > > > By 1837, £50,000 had been spent into
circulation by > > the government for the primary purpose of local > > projects
such as the sea walls, the roads, a new > > marketplace, a church and a college.
This £50,000 > > more > > than doubled the money supply. But there was NO > >
INFLATION. > > > > In 1914, while the British restricted their own > > money > >
supply, Guernsey issued more ... another £140,000 > > over > > the next four
years. By 1958, over £500,000 of > > interest-free money was in circulation on
Guernsey > > and > > still no inflation. STILL NO INFLATION. > > > > By 1990,
there was a total of £6.5 million in > > circulation issued interest-free. There
was no > > public > > debt as in the rest of Britain which was still > > paying >
> for its war debts. And yet on Guernsey,
prosperity > > was > > very much evident everywhere… > > ” > > Now Ryan, I would
like to ask you the > > straight-forward > > question: > > > > Do you insert
those pro-debt money literatures to > > insert doubt in to hearts of some new
readers, or it > > is just accidental? > > > > Best regards, > > Stan > > > > > >
Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:48:37 -0700 (PDT) > > From: "William B.
Ryan" <w_b_ryan@yahoo.com> > > Subject: In continuing reply to Jessop Sutton > >
> > "Jim, When your bank grants you an overdraft > > facility > > of $1000, you
can draw on it in cash which comes out > > > > of the cash in general circulation
outside of the > > statutory (fractional) reserve held at the Reserve > > Bank."
> >
---------------- > > ----------------- > > > > No, it does not come out of
general circulation. > > The > > general theorem, from Douglas's third book,
*Social > > Credit,* is: Loans create deposits; the repayment > > of > > loans
cancel deposits. > >
>http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/socialcredit/socialcredit.htm > > > > It
is a statistical concept relating to the economy > > as a whole. > > > > By the
way, Post Keynesianism, founded by Professor > > Paul Davidson, editor of the
Journal of Post > > Keynesian Economics, acknowledges the validity of > > the > >
theorem. > > - > > > > "Incidentally, you say 'The essence of the fraud is > >
the claim that the money that they create is their > > own money'. Where is the
fraud since the bank hasn't
> > > > actually 'created' anything?" > > ---------------- > > ----------------- > > > > If you would actually read Douglas, rather than > > merely pontificate about him and his theory, you > > would find the answer to your question. Perhaps you > > > > will not agree with the answer, but that's another > > matter: > > > > From Douglas's evidence before the Alberta > > legislature, 1934: > > >http://www.geocities.com/socredus/douglas-alberta-1934.txt > > > > :- > > > > "...Now that was, of course, originally--and I say > > this quite dispassionately because it is working to > > the end of a practical result which is important-- > > that was a system which originated in fraud; it was > > a > > system which originated by the issue of more >
> receipts > > than there were gold coins, on the assumption, which > > > > was generally true, that all the receipts would not > > be presented at once for honouring. So long as the > > actual gold behind those deposits was not all drawn > > at once, it was working perfectly successfully or > > fairly successfully for quite a long time. > > > > "It didn't work when everybody exercised his legal > > right to draw this gold; but it became so recognized > > > > >=== message truncated === > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >You're subscribed to this list with the email johngrawson@hotmail.com >To
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