eListas Logo
   The Most Complete Mailing Lists, Groups and Newsletters System on the Net
      HOME    SERVICES    SOLUTIONS    COMPANY    
Home > My Lists > socialcredit > Messages

 Message Index 
 Messages from 6781 to 6809 
SubjectFrom
Replying to Terenc william_
Replying to Rawson william_
Re: Re: 100 percen Swieto R
RE: Replying to Te John G R
RE: Replying to Ra John G R
RE: Re: 100 percen John G R
Re: Re: 100 percen Wallace
Re: Replying to Ra Kenneth
Replying to Palmer william_
RE: Replying to Pa John G R
Re: replying to 's Ed Goert
Re: Re: 100 percen Swieto R
Pressed down and o Eric Enc
Re: Re: a "well-re William
Re: Why jobs disap William
Re: Re: 100 percen William
"Socialism and Soc william_
Re: "Socialism and Jim
Re: "Socialism and Bob Taft
RE: Re: 100 percen John G R
Re: "Socialism and Wallace
Re: Re: a "well-re Kenneth
Replying to Klinck william_
The Money System T Arian F.
Re: The Money Syst Wallace
Re: The Money Syst Arian F.
Re: Re: The Money Wallace
Troubled/Shackled Eric Enc
Re: Re: The Money Kenneth
 << Prev. 60 | -- ---- >>
 
socialcredit
Main page    Messages | Post | Files | Database | Polls | Events | My Preferences
Message 6820     < Previous | Next >
Reply to this message
Subject:Re: [socialcredit] Re: The Money System Triggered the Bankruptcy of Ge
Date:Saturday, June 13, 2009  12:56:00 (+0100)
From:Kenneth Palmerton <kenpalmerton @................uk>

In-Reply-To: <5B3F63DB-A430-43D9-BA63-A29E2785F61C@shaw.ca>
Hi Wally.

Well written.

You have my complete agreement :-)))

Ken.

-------- Original Message --------

From: Wallace Klinck <wmklinck@shaw.ca>
To: socialcredit@elistas.com
Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:00:56 -0600

The point is that "man does on live by bread alone" and the less he or  
she is compelled to do so the better.  We do not have yet a fully  
automated system but this is the goal ultimately to which we  
rationally aspire.  And we have made enormous strides in this  
direction--progress which has been drastically  sabotaged by the  
imperative to engage in useless, degrading and destructive "work"  
which the present defective financial system has imposed upon us.  As  
Douglas stated:  Economics is simply a functional activity of men and  
women in the world and the sooner it can be dispensed with so that  
humanity can get on with more spiritual and cultural concerns and  
activities, the better.  If people worked rationally they would be  
continuously "working themselves out of a job."  Increased efficiency  
means that "work" is increasingly not needed and Social Credit wants  
to free mankind to enhance this process.  As one eminent author stated  
so eloquently some time ago, we are working our way back to Eden.  We  
cannot move toward this goal under a financial system which counters  
every advance of science and technology.  Perhaps even more  
importantly we cannot institute a realistic financial policy if we  
remain mesmerized by the false notion of Salvation through Works--the  
doctrine of Mammon and the cornerstone policy of totalitarianism such  
as fascism and communism, and indeed of orthodox debt finance wherein  
money is only issued as a debt and only for production.  Social Credit  
recognizes Salvation through Grace, indeed "something for nothing"  
which is a gift from God and Nature.  We must draw clear lines of  
demarcation to in order to differentiate these two irreconcilable  
contradictory policies inasmuch as society has been hypnotized into  
the idolatry of worshipping work for its own sake--that is, into  
worshiping a false morality and therefore genuflecting before a false  
God.  There is nothing necessarily moral about work, per se, and  
unnecessary perverted activity is a positive evil which is guaranteed  
to create Hell on earth--as, indeed, it has.  "Toil not---your  
Heavenly Father knows you have need of these things."  Hence the  
multiplication and distribution of loaves and fishes.  Having Faith,  
we can move mountains--and the more Faith we have the more easily we  
can move them.  This Social Credit calls the Unearned Increment of  
Association and the immense accumulating Cultural Heritage which  
proceeds from it and is, or should be, the enabling basis of  
accelerating genuine social and economic progress.

Sincerely
Wally



On 12-Jun-09, at 1:54 AM, Arian F. Nevin wrote:

> "[I]f the author did not appear to be promoting the idea that
> prosperity is necessarily related to 'work'." Production requires
> work. We don't have a fully automated production system, and thus
> prosperity (production among other things) is necessarily related to
> work. If nobody worked we wouldn't be prosperous. It's certainly true
> that in a saner economic system we would have much more leisure than
> now and that much "work" today doesn't really need to be done and
> simply exists to create incomes. Increased efficiency doesn't mean
> work isn't needed.
>
> And while ideally people would be able to work less and be paid more
> or perhaps receive a dividend having a job and thus an income is
> certainly better than being poor and unemployed!
>
> Arian
>
>
>
> There would be much truth to the assertion that this essay is in a
> "general" sense in accord with Social Credit if the author did not
> appear to be promoting the idea that prosperity is necessarily related
> to "work" and that a rectified financial system would create jobs or
> employment.  Social Credit asserts that the true purpose of production
> is consumption and not to create "work."  Social Credit seeks the
> provision of increasing opportunity for leisure.  Unemployment,
> properly conceived is a blessing rather than a curse because if it
> accompanies abundance this means that mankind has moved further and
> further from scarcity.  What is required is a financial system which
> facilitates distribution of the full product of industry to consumers
> without the need for consumer debt.
> Sincerely
> Wally
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9-Jun-09, at 11:33 PM, Arian F. Nevin wrote:
>
>> In a general sense the article is in accord with the ideas of Social
>> Credit.
>>
>> http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13917
>>
>> Thomas Friedman believes G.M. is a _giant wealth-destruction  
>> machine._
>> He_s dead wrong. General Motors was, is and will be a giant
>> wealth-production machine. Industry produces wealth, and G.M. is the
>> victim of an unsound money system.
>>
>> The abysmal state of the world economy has no physical cause. We have
>> not run out of resources, factories, people, or suffered a cataclysm.
>> All over the world, the unemployed are willing and eager to work, but
>> are prevented from earning a livelihood because they cannot find  
>> work.
>> An upside down notion of national economic wealth and an unsound
>> monetary system are at fault.
>>
>> The wealth of a nation is fundamentally based on the physical wealth
>> it creates. Physical wealth consists of things that are beneficial to
>> human life such as food, houses, clothes, cars, etc. The foundation  
>> of
>> a nation_s wealth is the industries that create physical wealth: raw
>> material extraction, energy, agriculture, and manufacturing. To  
>> become
>> wealthy, a nation must produce and consume wealth. A nation is not
>> made wealthy through banking, finance, litigation, or insurance.
>>
>> Individuals correctly regard the money they possess and the money  
>> they
>> are owed as part of their wealth. But, while debt and money are
>> ultimately ways for individuals to obtain wealth, they are not wealth
>> in and of themselves. Money is simply the medium by which we exchange
>> physical wealth. Money and debt are simply human conventions having  
>> no
>> intrinsic value in themselves. Thus, for a nation to be wealthy, it
>> must produce physical value. A nation should not and cannot consider
>> the money and debt it holds as wealth. If a nation were to have ten
>> times as much money as it does now, physically it would not have any
>> more wealth than before. Thus, though an individual can be made very
>> wealthy by accumulating money, a nation cannot.
>>
>> Nobel laureate, Frederick Soddy, distinguished between individual
>> economics and national economics. Economists conflate the two and
>> ruinously apply the principles of individual economics to the nation.
>> In individual economics, outsourcing jobs, work, and entire  
>> industries
>> is beneficial. With lower costs a company is able to increase its
>> profits. However, from a national perspective we are worse off,
>> because we are producing less and have fewer jobs. Individual profits
>> are increased, while the nation is impoverished. Applying the
>> principles of individual economics to the nation results in a  
>> steadily
>> declining standard of living and increasing unemployment.
>>
>> The mentality of economists such as Friedman is outdated and wrong.
>> Vincent Vickers, former director of the Bank of England, described
>> their mentality thusly: _Without money, nothing can be bought and
>> nothing sold. Therefore nothing matters but money._ Thereby, G.M.
>> becomes a _wealth-destruction machine_ because it is not making a
>> profit. But, in Friedman_s eyes Google, which he lauds, is creating
>> wealth because it is profiting, although it produces nothing and
>> profits by selling ads. By regarding money rather than production as
>> the primary factor that drives a nation_s economy, economists have
>> mistaken the shadow for the substance.
>>
>> The bankrupt ideas of economists are ruining our nation. American
>> industry can produce far more than the public can purchase. If
>> everything produced could be purchased, we would have more jobs
>> because more production requires more employees. We would be  
>> wealthier
>> and have a higher standard of living. Americans want to work and are
>> capable of producing. All that is missing is the power to purchase.
>>
>> The power to purchase is limited because the supply of money is
>> completely controlled by the private banking system. We have bank- 
>> made
>> rather than government-made money, and banks only create money for  
>> the
>> purpose of receiving interest. Today, money is only created so that
>> debt can be created and interest charged on that debt. Money is lent
>> into existence by banks rather than spent into existence by the
>> government. Only an insignificant amount of money is cash, and the
>> rest exists solely as data entries in bank computers. Banks create  
>> and
>> destroy money simply by modifying entries in a spreadsheet. While it
>> is commonly believed that banks lend their depositors_ money, this is
>> false. Whenever banks loan money, they create entirely new money that
>> didn_t exist before.
>>
>> Any economic system that prevents production from being distributed  
>> is
>> fundamentally flawed. The people must demand the government institute
>> a sound money system run in the public interest rather than let
>> private corporations run the system for profit at the public_s
>> expense. A sound monetary system would provide as much money as  
>> needed
>> and in such a way that it allows the exchange of all physical wealth
>> produced by the nation. Only then will our nation no longer be  
>> subject
>> to the random vagaries of economic boom and bust cycles driven by
>> speculative bubbles, private financial interests, and a corrupt money
>> system. If we already had a sound money system, right now GM would be
>> one of the strongest wealth producers on the planet, employing more
>> people than ever, and making a healthy profit. The fastest road to
>> economic recovery is to institute a sound money system.
>>
>> Arian Nevin is the author of National Economy: The Way to Abundance.
>> His website is www.nationaleconomy.net .
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are
>> at
>> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
>> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
>> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Arian F. Nevin<afnafn@gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>> In a general sense the article is in accord with the ideas of  
>> Social Credit.
>>
>> http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13917
>>
>> Thomas Friedman believes G.M. is a _giant wealth-destruction  
>> machine._
>> He_s dead wrong. General Motors was, is and will be a giant
>> wealth-production machine. Industry produces wealth, and G.M. is the
>> victim of an unsound money system.
>>
>> The abysmal state of the world economy has no physical cause. We have
>> not run out of resources, factories, people, or suffered a cataclysm.
>> All over the world, the unemployed are willing and eager to work, but
>> are prevented from earning a livelihood because they cannot find  
>> work.
>> An upside down notion of national economic wealth and an unsound
>> monetary system are at fault.
>>
>> The wealth of a nation is fundamentally based on the physical wealth
>> it creates. Physical wealth consists of things that are beneficial to
>> human life such as food, houses, clothes, cars, etc. The foundation  
>> of
>> a nation_s wealth is the industries that create physical wealth: raw
>> material extraction, energy, agriculture, and manufacturing. To  
>> become
>> wealthy, a nation must produce and consume wealth. A nation is not
>> made wealthy through banking, finance, litigation, or insurance.
>>
>> Individuals correctly regard the money they possess and the money  
>> they
>> are owed as part of their wealth. But, while debt and money are
>> ultimately ways for individuals to obtain wealth, they are not wealth
>> in and of themselves. Money is simply the medium by which we exchange
>> physical wealth. Money and debt are simply human conventions having  
>> no
>> intrinsic value in themselves. Thus, for a nation to be wealthy, it
>> must produce physical value. A nation should not and cannot consider
>> the money and debt it holds as wealth. If a nation were to have ten
>> times as much money as it does now, physically it would not have any
>> more wealth than before. Thus, though an individual can be made very
>> wealthy by accumulating money, a nation cannot.
>>
>> Nobel laureate, Frederick Soddy, distinguished between individual
>> economics and national economics. Economists conflate the two and
>> ruinously apply the principles of individual economics to the nation.
>> In individual economics, outsourcing jobs, work, and entire  
>> industries
>> is beneficial. With lower costs a company is able to increase its
>> profits. However, from a national perspective we are worse off,
>> because we are producing less and have fewer jobs. Individual profits
>> are increased, while the nation is impoverished. Applying the
>> principles of individual economics to the nation results in a  
>> steadily
>> declining standard of living and increasing unemployment.
>>
>> The mentality of economists such as Friedman is outdated and wrong.
>> Vincent Vickers, former director of the Bank of England, described
>> their mentality thusly: _Without money, nothing can be bought and
>> nothing sold. Therefore nothing matters but money._ Thereby, G.M.
>> becomes a _wealth-destruction machine_ because it is not making a
>> profit. But, in Friedman_s eyes Google, which he lauds, is creating
>> wealth because it is profiting, although it produces nothing and
>> profits by selling ads. By regarding money rather than production as
>> the primary factor that drives a nation_s economy, economists have
>> mistaken the shadow for the substance.
>>
>> The bankrupt ideas of economists are ruining our nation. American
>> industry can produce far more than the public can purchase. If
>> everything produced could be purchased, we would have more jobs
>> because more production requires more employees. We would be  
>> wealthier
>> and have a higher standard of living. Americans want to work and are
>> capable of producing. All that is missing is the power to purchase.
>>
>> The power to purchase is limited because the supply of money is
>> completely controlled by the private banking system. We have bank- 
>> made
>> rather than government-made money, and banks only create money for  
>> the
>> purpose of receiving interest. Today, money is only created so that
>> debt can be created and interest charged on that debt. Money is lent
>> into existence by banks rather than spent into existence by the
>> government. Only an insignificant amount of money is cash, and the
>> rest exists solely as data entries in bank computers. Banks create  
>> and
>> destroy money simply by modifying entries in a spreadsheet. While it
>> is commonly believed that banks lend their depositors_ money, this is
>> false. Whenever banks loan money, they create entirely new money that
>> didn_t exist before.
>>
>> Any economic system that prevents production from being distributed  
>> is
>> fundamentally flawed. The people must demand the government institute
>> a sound money system run in the public interest rather than let
>> private corporations run the system for profit at the public_s
>> expense. A sound monetary system would provide as much money as  
>> needed
>> and in such a way that it allows the exchange of all physical wealth
>> produced by the nation. Only then will our nation no longer be  
>> subject
>> to the random vagaries of economic boom and bust cycles driven by
>> speculative bubbles, private financial interests, and a corrupt money
>> system. If we already had a sound money system, right now GM would be
>> one of the strongest wealth producers on the planet, employing more
>> people than ever, and making a healthy profit. The fastest road to
>> economic recovery is to institute a sound money system.
>>
>> Arian Nevin is the author of National Economy: The Way to Abundance.
>> His website is www.nationaleconomy.net .
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are  
> at
> http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
> You're subscribed to this list with the email wmklinck@shaw.ca
> For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some introductory materials to the discussion topic of this list are at
http://www.geocities.com/socredus/compendium
You're subscribed to this list with the email 
kenpalmerton@cix.compulink.co.uk
For more information, visit http://www.eListas.com/list/socialcredit


--
*Included Files:*
am2file:001-HTML_Message.html


Services:  HomeList Hosting ServicesIndustry Solutions
Your Account:  Sign UpMy ListsMy PreferencesStart a List
General:  About UsNewsPrivacy PolicyNo spamContact Us

eListas Seal
eListas is a registered trademark of eListas Networks S.L.
Copyright © 1999-2006 AR Networks, All Rights Reserved
Terms of Service